> General Discussions
called and chosen
Lightseeker:
Ray,
Thanks Euty, I would agree totally with that E-mail, in as far as it goes in the understanding of that scripture. But I wouldn't break fellowship with someone who still thought 'their choice' and 'will' wasn't free because they didn't understand it as such. So I truely thank you for offering teaching over judgment.
PHI 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
But what if I made a choice which was the result of the 'god of this world', whose will isn't going to be for God's good pleasure as Phi 2:13 says. Do lying and evil works bring good pleasure to your Father in heaven? That's not my view of my heavenly Father. That view lines up with churchianitie's definitions of His good pleasure being torture in a eternal hell.
I'm wondering what Jesus meant when He said the pharisees were listening to another Father/god of this world's voice? And that god's will wasn't doing The Fathers GOOD PLEASURE. In other words 'their will' was within the Father's will, but not His good acceptable and perfect will...but only His acceptable will? Instead it was accomplishing the Devil's BAD WORKS and his PLEASURE in the Pharisees?
JOH 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
Thoughts Ray?
hillsbororiver:
--- Quote from: Lightseeker ---Ray,
Thanks Euty, I would agree totally with that E-mail, in as far as it goes in the understanding of that scripture. But I wouldn't break fellowship with someone who still thought 'their choice' and 'will' wasn't free because they didn't understand it as such. So I truely thank you for offering teaching over judgment.
PHI 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
But what if I made a choice which was the result of the 'god of this world', whose will isn't going to be for God's good pleasure as Phi 2:13 says. Do lying and evil works bring good pleasure to your Father in heaven? That's not my view of my heavenly Father. That view lines up with churchianitie's definitions of His good pleasure being torture in a eternal hell.
I'm wondering what Jesus meant when He said the pharisees were listening to another Father/god of this world's voice? And that god's will wasn't doing The Fathers GOOD PLEASURE. In other words 'their will' was within the Father's will, but not His good acceptable and perfect will...but only His acceptable will? Instead it was accomplishing the Devil's BAD WORKS and his PLEASURE in the Pharisees?
JOH 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
Thoughts Ray?
--- End quote ---
http://bible-truths.com/lake9.html
Dee, I had previously asked you if you had read any of Ray's papers, Satan was created for this very purpose.
Eutychus' name is actually Chuck, he pasted a portion of one of Ray's e-mail responses.
Please let us know your feelings on the link I posted for you.
Thanks,
Joe
eutychus:
Eutychus' name is actually Chuck,
the providence of Almighty is awsome. no way to totally understand.
Christ being the example, teaching everything and everywhere he went had a purpose, he did what we cant, but as we grow we become more like him.
Christ had boundries just like us and obsticals the difference being he did everything right, praise God.
all Glory and honour to Christ the king!!
love
chuck :oops: euty
lilitalienboi16:
Lightseeker,
--- Quote ---But what if I made a choice which was the result of the 'god of this world', whose will isn't going to be for God's good pleasure as Phi 2:13 says. Do lying and evil works bring good pleasure to your Father in heaven? That's not my view of my heavenly Father. That view lines up with churchianitie's definitions of His good pleasure being torture in a eternal hell.
--- End quote ---
Thats impossible, because as was pointed out by Hills, the "god" of this world - Satan - was created for the very purpose of what He is doing.
Remember the Story of Job, could satan touch Job without Gods permission? Could He do anything to Job (FOR EXAMPLE KILL HIM) if God did not give Him permission to do it?
Here is some scripture on satan
"Behold, I have created the smiththat blows the coals in the fire, and that brings forth an instrument for His work, and I have CREATED THE WASTER [SATAN] TO DESTROY" (Isaiah 54:16).
"In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when you are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, To deliver such an one UNTO SATAN for DESTRUCTION of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus" (I Cor. 5:4-5).
Here is the Scripture on free will, well some scripture.
"Having PREDESTINATED US ... according to the good pleasure of HIS will ... In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being PREDESTINATED according to the purpose of Him who worketh ALL THINGS after the COUNSEL OF HIS OWN WILL:" (Eph. 1:5 and 11).
"Moreover whom He did predestinate, them He also called..." (Rom. 8:30).
"I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy ... It is not of him that willeth, but of God who showeth mercy" (Rom. 9: 15-16).
God Himself is the reason people do not believe!
"the God of this world (age - aion) hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them" (II Cor. 4:4).
"God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day" (Rom. 11:8).
Lightseeker:
Thanks Ray I'll read that. Sorry Chuck....my bad.
lilitalienboi16
--- Quote ---Thats impossible, because as was pointed out by Hills, the "god" of this world - Satan - was created for the very purpose of what He is doing.
--- End quote ---
Which I addressed as part of God's acceptable will but not His Good and Perfect pleasure. It is part of the soverignty of God.
In the story of Job did God tell Satan what he could do??? Or did God just tell him what he couldn't do? So whose will was active in Job's life? It looks like God and Satan to me.
All your 'free will scriptures' fall under my original premise. In it I said that I didn't think anyone had free will untill they were born again, then they were free and free indeed. And I totally agree with your
--- Quote ---God Himself is the reason people do not believe!
--- End quote ---
scriptures.
But now I'm actually wondering if they only lacked free will to choose Christ. I may be going backward thanks to you guys imput. :wink: Not really...I'm enjoying and considering the imput from all...OK most. :P
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