> General Discussions
called and chosen
Andy_MI:
I like how the Rotherhams reads in the following verses.
Phi 3:8 Yea, doubtless! and I account all things to be, loss, because of the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, for the sake of whom, the loss, of all things, have I suffered, and do account them refuse, in order that, Christ, I may win,
Phi 3:9 And be found in him—not having a righteousness of my own, that which is by law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is, of God, upon my faith,—
Phi 3:10 To get to know him, and the power of his resurrection and fellowship of his sufferings, becoming conformed unto his death,—
Phi 3:11 If by any means I may advance to the earlier resurrection, which is from among the dead:
Phi 3:12 Not that I have, already, received, or have, already, reached perfection, but I am pressing on—if I may even lay hold of that for which I have also been laid hold of by Christ Jesus:—
Phi 3:13 Brethren! I, as to myself, reckon that I have, not yet, laid hold; one thing, however,—the things behind, forgetting, and, unto the things before, eagerly reaching out,
Phi 3:14 With the goal in view, I press on for the prize of the upward calling of God in Christ Jesus.
Notice in verse 11 it reads "earlier resurrection"
It looks like at the time of his writing to the Phillipians, Paul was not sure yet of his election since "he that endures to the end shall be saved"
In 2Tim which is considered the last book Paul wrote he says this:
2Ti 4:6 For, I, already, am being poured out as a drink-offering, and, the season of my release, is at hand,—
2Ti 4:7 The noble contest, have I contested, the race, have I finished, the faith, have I kept:
2Ti 4:8 Henceforth, lieth by for me—the crown, of righteousness, which the Lord will render unto me in that, day,—The righteous judge,—Ye, not alone unto me, but unto all them also who have loved his forthshining.
Looks like he had assurance that since he finished his race well that he finally had assurance of his election.
Am I on the right track here?
Love in Christ,
Andy
ertsky:
God bless you Andy :D
not only is your train on the right track it would appear you are running right on schedule :lol:
your post has caused the spiritual apoplexy brought on by lightseekers trainwreck theology to return to calm relaxed contemplation of the awesome plan of God.
f
orion77:
Lightseeker, the verses you quoted from Acts 21:20-23, I think you need to reread them again and keep going through the rest of the chapter. You will see that Paul was persecuted by the jews, because he was telling them to forsake the law of moses.
At that time there were many believers who believed in Jesus, but were still zealous for the law of Moses. Paul was teaching that the law of Moses was fullfilled and we are no longer under the law. And even today, the majority of christians still believe we are under the law.
God bless,
Gary
Lightseeker:
--- Quote from: lilitalienboi16 ---Lightseeker, you saying Christ obeyed His Father in the Garden seems like alot of your own doctrin. Unless you show me scripture instead of tell me what you think, then all that is is another doctrin of man. Just like your free will belief. Gods words are alot more powerfull then man. Does anyone else know about this "Christ obeyed His father in the garden by laying down His life" reasoning of thinking? Does it have any scriptural support?
P.S. There is no scripture that supports free will. (Holding on to the traditions and doctrin of men)
--- End quote ---
LUK 22:42 "Father, if thou art willing, remove this cup from me; nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done."
MAT 26:53 Do you think that I cannot appeal to my Father, and he will at once send me more than twelve legions of angels?
Like I said earlier, there may be a difference of opinion as to what 'free will' is. Jesus' soul (mind, will, emotions) was sorrowful unto death in the garden in its struggle with going to the cross of death. But scripture indicates to me that Jesus chose to obey the Father's will. His soul was in such a struggle that His physical body broke down and bled under the emotional stress. Psychology affects biology and soul affects body.
MAT 26:38 Then he said to them, "My soul is very sorrowful, even to death; remain here, and watch with me." 39 And going a little farther he fell on his face and prayed, "My Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me; nevertheless, not as I will, but as thou wilt."
What's your definition of free will?
eutychus:
--- Quote from: Lightseeker ---
--- Quote from: lilitalienboi16 ---Lightseeker, you saying Christ obeyed His Father in the Garden seems like alot of your own doctrin. Unless you show me scripture instead of tell me what you think, then all that is is another doctrin of man. Just like your free will belief. Gods words are alot more powerfull then man. Does anyone else know about this "Christ obeyed His father in the garden by laying down His life" reasoning of thinking? Does it have any scriptural support?
P.S. There is no scripture that supports free will. (Holding on to the traditions and doctrin of men)
--- End quote ---
LUK 22:42 "Father, if thou art willing, remove this cup from me; nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done."
MAT 26:53 Do you think that I cannot appeal to my Father, and he will at once send me more than twelve legions of angels?
Like I said earlier, there may be a difference of opinion as to what 'free will' is. Jesus' soul (mind, will, emotions) was sorrowful unto death in the garden in its struggle with going to the cross of death. But scripture indicates to me that Jesus chose to obey the Father's will. His soul was in such a struggle that His physical body broke down and bled under the emotional stress. Psychology affects biology and soul affects body.
MAT 26:38 Then he said to them, "My soul is very sorrowful, even to death; remain here, and watch with me." 39 And going a little farther he fell on his face and prayed, "My Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me; nevertheless, not as I will, but as thou wilt."
What's your definition of free will?
--- End quote ---
i found this preety good: from email section
Dear Ralph:
I have answered this question dozens and dozens and dozens of times. You need to read my paper on Free Will. It is all answered thre is GREAT detail. Choices have absolutely NOTHING to do with free will. We alol have a "will." We all make billions of "choices" in our lives. Not ONE OF US HAS A 'FREE' will; and not one of us can made a "FREE" choice. You have to first understand the meaning of the terms. The beginning of part A of my paper explains this in very great and simple detail. Of course we have a will and of course we can make choices, but neither is "free"--our will and our choices are CAUSED by many things over which we have absolutely no control whatsoever. God is that ultimate controlling Force. You must read and believe the Scriptures. I give dozens and dozens and dozens of Scriptures proving that we cannot make an UNCAUSED choice, and whatever it is that CAUSES our choices is in ontrol, NOT US. "For it is GOD [not us, GOD] which works in us BOTH to will and to do of HIS good pleasure" (Eph. 2:13). We MUST believe the Scriptures.
God be with you,
Ray
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