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Author Topic: I was just thinking!  (Read 8441 times)

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musicman

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Re: I was just thinking!
« Reply #20 on: June 24, 2008, 06:41:23 PM »

Roy, the point was made several posts ago.  I don't see a trend of forum members continually lying to themselves and claiming to know and love God the way we must.  Let's remember that everything is relative.  Are you going to point out every flaw in one's character which shows a lack of love for God?  Even when I gave a dead honest answer you felt compeled to remind me that I am a fence staddler or something (luke warm).  Well no joke Shirlock (wait, did I say that right?).  Anyway, let's leave the teaching to Ray.

P.S.
Thanks for the scriture about luke warm.  It's good to know exactly what I am.  It's way better to be luke warm right now than wicked hot in Satan's barbacue pit known as hell.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2008, 06:45:55 PM by musicman »
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hillsbororiver

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Re: I was just thinking!
« Reply #21 on: June 24, 2008, 07:25:20 PM »

I think that in a roundabout way Roy was alluding to what Paul wrote here;

Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. (Here is our "beast" the carnal mind)

Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Rom 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Rom 8:12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.

Rom 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

I really do not think this is a simple yes or no answer, as carnal men the answer would be a flat "no" as we do not have a clue as to who and what God actually is, if we are called to experience His indwelling Spirit then it should be I love God more than yesterday but not as much as tomorrow. For those who once believed in an eternal hell did you not immediately feel a love for God that you had not before when it was revealed that this hell business is a doctrine of Satan and not of God?

As our eyes open to God's ultimate plan for all mankind, as we understand this (and by extension His Divine nature) learning more of Him day by day doesn't our love continue to increase? I believe this increase will continue always, throughout our immortal lives.
 
Roy please correct me if I have mistakenly represented your thoughts.

Peace,

Joe
« Last Edit: June 24, 2008, 07:44:09 PM by hillsbororiver »
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winner08

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Re: I was just thinking!
« Reply #22 on: June 24, 2008, 09:37:16 PM »

Great thread Roy from the UK. Awhile back I wrote an email to Ray, and I said just how I felt on this and related subjects. I called it, I feel like a hypocrit. Yes this is how I feel about your question. I don't know how to post my email for all to read. It has some good points in it that I feel that most can relate to. Your mention that it is a straight yes or know ansewer.Without going into a long reason why, my ansewer is No. I feel as if I do not love God in my heart of hearts as much as I love my wife and kids and my mom. This is the first words out of my mouth every morning when I wake up and every night before I go to sleep.(Please God in Jesus's name ,Change my heart). I also pray that God will fill my soul with His Holy Spirit so that I may know His words and do His will. This I pray every day and night. Now this is not all that I pray but it is the first and last. Look up that email it's pretty good.

      PS I know what love is, but I just don't know if I really FEEL what love is.


                                              Thanks Darren
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Beloved

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Re: I was just thinking!
« Reply #23 on: June 24, 2008, 11:03:12 PM »

In this chapter Paul talking about love ...please note

 For we know in part and we prophesy in part; 10 but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away.

12 For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face; now I know in part, but then I will know fully just as I also have been fully known. 13 But now faith, hope, love, abide these three; but the greatest of these is love." (1Cor.13).


I do not believe that we can attain this perfect love while we are in the flesh.
We can only love inperfectly


(1Jn 4:10)  in this is the love, not that we loved God, but that He did love us, and did send His Son a propitiation for our sins.

(1Jn 4:11)  Beloved, if thus did God love us, we also ought one another to love;
(1Jn 4:12)  God no one hath ever seen; if we may love one another, God in us doth remain, and His love is having been perfected in us;

(1Jn 4:13)  in this we know that in Him we do remain, and He in us, because of His Spirit He hath given us.

(1Jn 4:16)  and we--we have known and believed the love that God hath in us; God is love, and he who is remaining in the love, in God he doth remain, and God in him.

(1Jn 4:18)  fear is not in the love, but the perfect love doth cast out the fear, because the fear hath punishment, and he who is fearing hath not been made perfect in the love;

(1Jn 4:19)  we--we love him, because He--He first loved us;

God is LOVE   ......God = LOVE  We can not attain this state in the flesh

Christ "in us"  is the closest we get while here on earth, most of us are just like Peter.....we can barely philelo/ love God right now....and we are not really even good at that.  We have such short attention spans and cannot maintain because we are often distracted by the world.

The fact that we believe that God will save ALL...gives us only fraction of feeling of love toward our enemies....because we know they will some day see what we see....but the day will come....

that the elect will be sown as seed for the many called and that these then will be sown for the rest of the world.

only then we will fullfill this scripture
(Joh 15:13)  Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

The last word..."friends" is
G5384 φίλος  philos fee'-los
Properly dear, that is, a friend; actively fond, that is, friendly (still as a noun, an associate, neighbor, etc.):

Thanks Roy....stimulate and stir us up

beloved
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KristaD

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Re: I was just thinking!
« Reply #24 on: June 24, 2008, 11:07:51 PM »

Beautiful Beloved, thank you.
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dewey

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Re: I was just thinking!
« Reply #25 on: June 24, 2008, 11:42:26 PM »

Bobby Proctor,

Your post reply #19.  At 04-03-49 p.m. was very good and my thinking also.  

Obrenda; you posted lost in love - love thy neighbor.  This goes hand in hand with judging yourself.

And Kent, - how you doing my friend?  You posted in reply to Obrenda and said if he wants to play Russian rouilette will you give him a revolver?  My answer is I don't know; but I know what Jesus said.  If a man asks for your cloak give him also your - ahhh (you know what he said).  We are all experts at quoting scriptures on this forum.  After reading all the posts on the subject of lost in love and the subject of I was just thinking the Lord has inspired me to post on love and judge not - they go hand in hand.  And check this out.  

I was in the process of posting on this months ago when a very sincere lady that we all know and love told me that my love was all mushy, gushy.  It has taken much sincere meditation and studying the word.  I ask all of you to check out my post on judge not on 2-17-08 at 10:51 p.m. post #24.  And Itlitalienboi 16 - you said you could not wit for that post.  Well, brother, if you're reading this you waited.

And folks, this is what Jesus had to say about love:

"God abideth in us and his love is perfected in us.  Hereby we know that we abide in him and he in us. He hath given us of his spirit.  And we have beheld and bear witness that the Father has sent the Son to be the saviour of the world.  Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God abideth in him and he in God.  And we know and believe the love which God hath in us.  God is love; and he that abideth in love abideth in God; and God abideth in him.  And that means we keep his commandments.  His commandments are not grevious.

Here are some of the things that make me believe as I believe:  Some will quote Mattew 7:1- "Judge not, lest you be judged" - to claim that it is "unchristian" to identify people's sins or those that plague a society.  How many times have you heard someone say, "Don't judge me" or "Christians are not to judge others?"

Ask yourself, now can a Christian be expected to stay away from people of bad character, as the Bible commands (1 Cor.5:1-5; 1 Tim. 6:3-6), if he is not allowed to judge their actions - in other words, identify their inappropriate behavior?  Also, now could Paul instruct Christians to "mark" and "avoid" divisive people (Rom. 16:7) unless the conduct of such people be examined - unless judgment were made?

The word "judge" in Matthew 7:1 comes from the Greek word "krono" which can mean "to try, condemn, punish" or "to distinguish, decide;"  the context depends upon how the word is used.

The apostle John wrote, "God sent not His Son into  the world to condemn (krono) the world; but that the world through Him might be saved" (John 3:17).  Yet, Paul used this same Greek word to teach that true Christians are in training to judge the whole world - including angels:  "Do you now know  that the saints shall judge (krinos) the world?  And if the world shall be judged by you, are you unworthy to judge the smallest matters?  Know you not that we shall judge (krinos) angels?  How much more things that pertain to this life?" (1 Cor. 6:2-3).   Four chapters later, he added, "I speak as to wise men;; judge (krinos) you what I say" (1 Cor. 10:15).  Obviously, Paul did not intend for the Corinthians to condemn his words, but rather to judge - "decide" - whether he was teaching sound doctrine.

When Jesus said, "Judge not, lest you be judged", he meant that you can sometimes avoid judgment coming upon yourself by avoiding judging others.  This does not mean that Christians are never to judge.  Rather, in certan situations, it is better to avoid rendering a judgment - a decision about, an evaluation of, conduct or behavior - lest you bring judgment upon yourself.  If you decide to judge, be careful, as whatever standard you use to render a decision will be used on yourself:  "For with what judgment you judge you shall be judged:  and with what measure you mete, it shall be measured to you again" (Matt. 7:2).

Consider.  If Jesus had meant Christians should never judge, period, then, He would have contradicted Himself when He said "Judge not according to the appearance, but judge (krinos) righteous judgment (John 7:24).  Christ clearly stated that christians are to judge others.  However, we are to use righteous judgment.  If a person judges righteously, he will avoid judgment coming upon himself.

Most overlook John 7:24 and focus only on Matthew 7:1.  They fail to put all of the pieces of the puzzle together, thus they stumble and are snared (Isa. 28:13).

The key to understanding John 7:24 is found beginning three verses earlier.  Referring to His healing a man on the Sabbath day, to which the Pharisees vehemently objected, "Jesus answered and said unto them, I have done one work, and you all marvel."  According to the Pharisees, healing on the Sabbath was considered work, so they accused Him of breaking the Sabbath.

In verses 22-23, Jesus continues His discourse:  "Moses therefore gave unto you circumcision...and you on the Sabbath day circumsice a man (according to the law of Moses, a male child was to be circumcised eight days after being born, which would sometimes fall on the Sabbath.)  If a man on the Sabbath day receive circumcision that the law of Moses should not be broken; are you angry at Me, beause I have made a man every whit whole on the Sabbath day?

The Pharisees constantly accused Christ of deviating from the Law of Moses.  They claimed to uphold this law down to the last jot and tittle.  Jesus used this to His advantage and asked them why they considered it lawful to circumcise a child on the Sabbath, but unlawful to make "a man every whit whole"?  Christ ponted out the hypocrisy of such "logic".  (Recall the example was examined earlier concering Mark 2:27-28.)

This brings us to John 7:24:  "Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment."  Jesus said this to the Pharisees in this context because they were judging his actions according to sight, and not by God's law.  In other words, they used human reasoning rather than God's standard of righteousness, defined by His law.  Thus, they brought judgment upon themselves.

When Jesus was in the flesh, He too had to rely on God to judge righteously:  "I can of My own self do nothing:  as I hear, I judge:  and My judgment is just; because I seek not my own will, but the will of the Father which has sent Me" (John 5:30).  Since the Pharisees were not seeking the will of God and were not obeying His commandments, they could not judge correctly.

Finally, consider Christ's statement in John 8:  "You judge after the flesh; you judge no man.  And yet if I judge, My judgment is true; for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me" (vs. 15-16).  These verses reveal that Jesus did not judge after the flesh or according to sight.  Instead, He judged righteously because He relied on the Father, just as Christians are to do.  The Father did the judging through Jesus.  But this occurred only  because Jesus sought the Father's will and obeyed Him, as Christians are to do.

Like so many of the Bible's teachings, the subject of judging is widely misunderstood.  This is because the majority focuses only on Matthew 7:1 and does not take into account the numerous other verses on the subject.  Again, most fail to put all of the pieces of the large biblical puzzle together (Isa. 28:10).

It is written:  "As surely as I live, says the Lord, every knee will bow before Me; every tongue will confess to God"

And as far as we know, there is only one God - our Father almighty and creator - hallelujah!!!

Now, folks, take into consideration all these words mean nothing.  But now, I'm gonna tell you what means everything.  Jesus said THROUGH FAITH AND GRACE YOU ARE SAVED.  Hallelujah

In the name of Jesus Christ, Dewey & Paula try to love all people who will let us
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rk12201960

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Re: I was just thinking!
« Reply #26 on: June 25, 2008, 12:31:18 AM »

Very nice dewey,  ;D

If you had not felt the sting in your post from before (and I'm asking) would you have known love in this way?

It is how God teaches us is it not?
Some of us have felt the sting more than others and on these I won't judge, we all learn, its what we're here for.

Great post!

Peace.
Randy


.
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dewey

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Re: I was just thinking!
« Reply #27 on: June 25, 2008, 01:39:22 AM »

good point randy , now you know why it took so long for me to get back ,now you know a whole lot more about me than most.
   Vangie what on Gods green earth is a spagdehetti alien, thats a frist for me , but its a good one . in his spirit love yuans ,dewey
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Vangie

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Re: I was just thinking!
« Reply #28 on: June 25, 2008, 10:03:48 AM »

I removed the post Dewey's referring to--accidentally posted when I meant to preview--oops.  Good to see you back Dewey!

Love in Christ,
Vangie
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jeetkunejimi

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Re: I was just thinking!
« Reply #29 on: June 25, 2008, 01:24:17 PM »

Hi there Roy,
                 none of us love God fully, were all out for ourselves when push comes to shove, even when we do a good deed it puffs us up inside. I can start by trying to fully appriciate what Christ has done for us all though at Calvary, even though my sin shows I'm way off achieving that goal. But at least it's a goal, and a race worth running.
I say I love my kids and at times dissapoint them or fail to connect with them because I'm too busy surfing the net or watching TV. I say I love my wife but I don't work hard enough at giving her the things she wants, like a holiday once a year or a sympathetic ear after a hard day at work. I say a lot of things, but at least I know that God first loved me and that He's in the driving seat and I'm just along for the ride and that every word out of my mouth He predestined.
So I guess so far in my life no I don't love God properly, I don't love anyone fully, not even myself, I don't really know what love is in comparrison to that day on the hill of the skull.But when I'm face to face with him...then I'll know and I won't be face to face with him for long I'll be looking at his feet.
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Roy Monis

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Re: I was just thinking!
« Reply #30 on: June 25, 2008, 01:39:00 PM »

Hi! All

Please note that I'm in no way deviating from Ray's teachings, on the contrary I am fully in accord with them that is why I'm on this site in the first place to support not fault.

Thank you all both supporters and detractors, your input is very welcome it gives us a starting point if we keep a clear and unbiased mind. I will emphasize once again I am not a teacher nor am I in a position to teach but learn from people like Ray, the moderators and you kind and loving members. We are all entitled to our own opinions and I thank you all for your frankness. I mean no offense to anyone, including you brother musicman I appreciate your input and if I have inadvertently offended please accept my sincere apology and when I apologize I mean it from the heart, believe me. I am only sharing God's Word as He speaks to me and each and everyone of us, so let's share in harmony and peace, I enjoy reading what He is saying to each and everyone of you as you share it in your individual posts with me. All I ask is that you please give His message to me a fair run as I share it with you.

I see from the post that there are quite a number who are prepared to try and follow my thread and I will direct this to you so as to cause no offense to those who do not wish to know and wish to criticize purely for criticisms sake.

Beloved, Joe, OBenda, KristaD, Darren and Vangie. Yes indeed Matt.22:37-40 is truly still alive and kicking and that is the Scripture heading to where I'm going on this thread. As to the "YES" or "NO" is it of man or God? I didn't mean the lukewarm to be personal it was directed at the subject in question. I now see my error and why I'm being accused of being judgmental though inadvertently, and I will repent of this sin and here and now sincerely apologize to musicman and ask his forgiveness.
1...."Jesus said unto him, 'Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second [is] like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets'". (Matt.22:37-40)
2...."Now the man had relations with his wife Eve, and she conceived and gave birth to Cain, and she said, “I have gotten a manchild with the help of the LORD.” Again, she gave birth to his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of flocks, but Cain was a tiller of the ground. So it came about in the course of time that Cain brought an offering to the LORD of the fruit of the ground. Abel, on his part also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of their fat portions. And the LORD had regard for Abel and for his offering; but for Cain and for his offering He had no regard. So Cain became very angry and his countenance fell. Then the LORD said to Cain, “Why are you angry? And why has your countenance fallen? “If you do well, will not your countenance be lifted up? And if you do not do well, sin is crouching at the door; and its desire is for you, but you must master it.”  (Gen4:1-7)
3....   “But when you present the blind for sacrifice, is it not evil? And when you present the lame and sick, is it not evil? Why not offer it to your governor? Would he be pleased with you? Or would he receive you kindly?” says the Lord of hosts. “But now will you not entreat God’s favor, that He may be gracious to us? With such an offering on your part, will He receive any of you kindly?” says the Lord of hosts. “Oh that there were one among you who would shut the gates, that you might not uselessly kindle fire on My altar! I am not pleased with you,” says the Lord of hosts, “nor will I accept an offering from you. “For from the rising of the sun even to its setting, My name will be great among the nations, and in every place incense is going to be offered to My name, and a grain offering that is pure; for My name will be great among the nations,” says the Lord of hosts."  (Mai.1:8-11).
3.....   ‘He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, I will grant to eat of the tree of life which is in the Paradise of God.’ (Rev.2:7)
4......‘He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes will not be hurt by the second death.’  (Rev.2:11).
5......‘He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, to him I will give some of the hidden manna, and I will give him a white stone, and a new name written on the stone which no one knows but he who receives it.’ (Rev.2:17).
6.......‘He who overcomes, and he who keeps My deeds until the end, to him I will give authority over the nations;" (Rev.2:26).
7.......‘He who overcomes will thus be clothed in white garments; and I will not erase his name from the book of life, and I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels."  (Rev3:5).
8.......‘He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he will not go out from it anymore; and I will write on him the name of My God, and the name of the city of My God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God, and My new name."  (Rev.3:12).
9......‘He who overcomes, I will grant to him to sit down with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne."  (Rev.3:21).

                            ‘He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.’ ”

Ray teaches us that the whole Bible is a parable and I believe that he is right. Not just Revelation but the complete Bible is a parable and must be read as such in the SPIRIT.

I see a spiritual connection between all the Scriptures I have quoted and my question "DO YOU LOVE GOD?" and the beast within who is cunningly deceiving us.

It defeats the purpose of the exercise if I tell you what I believe, we should all study them in prayer and try to discover what they are saying to us regardless of what they are saying to me. When Evangie plunged for (Matt.22:37-40), I thought she had the answer but then she drifted on to my critics and was thrown of her path.

Beloved you are so very near. Indeed it all centres round the first three commandments but the thorn lies in the second command. It is that thorn we are trying to locate and name.

I will download and post out to Dewey the entire Old and New Testaments, as his supply must have worn out by now, because all he seems to be able to do is throw the Scriptures at each and everyone haphazard which is far from edifying and doesn't seem to have a clue as to what he is talking about. 

Randy I don't understand what stung you. Was it a bee? Horseflies can cause a nasty swelling.

I emailed Bobby Proctor on a PM maybe he'd like to post it here for all to share. Would you Bobby?

Darren I can see your point, but I'm not talking about earthly love for mother, father, friends and neighbours, but a Godly love which requires much, much more than we are normally accustomed to here on earth, you will find that love described beautifully in 1Cor.13. An entire chapter devoted to that one topic so it must be very important, don't you think?

Hi! Joe you're a real comforter but why have you gone and robbed me of the cream.   

Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. (Here is our "beast" the carnal mind)
Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Rom 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
Rom 8:12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
Rom 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
Fantastic Joe it is all truly about the Spirit and the hand of God. You and Beloved have quoted the correct Scriptures that I am basing my thoughts on.
 
Deep within me I feel that everyone of you is seeing what I am going on about and I give all thanks and glory to God because this has been on my mind for quite sometime now and it is not by accident that I have ventured to post it on this forum. I had a good idea that there would be differences of opinion but I never expected the mean spirited criticism I received. Thank you Beloved for your forewarning post God bless you.

But one person, OBrenda, has truly nailed it, that is to say what this post is all about, here is her post;
Well Roy,
IMHO...The beast within me is what I also understand as the Ego/Carnial Mind.  Which calls itself "I".  It sees itself as separate from others, where comes forth pride and judgement and loneliness.  It identifies itself with physical things, which produces Lust and Greed. (What car I drive, what I do for Work, What Church I go to)  When the scriptures tell us WE are "ONE" body....with many parts...."ONE" tree with many Limbs.
So the one that says "I" in me is the beast.
So No "I" do not Love GOD!
But greater is he that is in me, than he that is in the World (Satan)
But the creation and workmanship that is HIM that works in me, Loves God Dearly!

Without a doubt HE who (now please don't get me wrong, I am not suggesting or inferring anything, I know how this can go wrong. I have already messed things up with musicman and had to go down on my knees for his forgiveness because it was not meant in the way it was taken, so please bear with me) is in you Loves God dearly, but the "I" is still sharing space with Him and it is that "I" which speaks for you in Satan's world outside you. "DO YOU LOVE GOD?"

Do you follow what I'm trying to say? That beast has to be brought out of hiding and exposed before the Spirit within you can assist you to overcome him. As long as he is in hiding he is absolutely safe.

Now Brenda we are on really sticky ground, we cannot sit on our laurels and say the One within is greater than him without, we have a command repeated 7 times further up "Overcome". Overcome what if not the "I" within. The Spirit will help you but you have to do your bit as well. You mention Pride, Lust, Greed, judgment but left out one more deadly than the lot. I remember seeing a Hollywood film called "Pride and Prejudice" so let's throw in this last sin which has to be overcome.

How do we all fare now, think hard and long about it and pray because it is the deadliest sin against our neighbour. With that on our plate can we still say "WE LOVE GOD?"  "If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for the one who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love God whom he has not seen. And this commandment we have from Him, that the one who loves God should love his brother also." (1Jn.4:20,21). Prejudice is next door to hate if not worse. Remember Miriam and what God thought of prejudice.
 
 Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed that he does not fall." (1Cor.10:12)

God bless you brothers and sisters in our joint walk in Christ. 

Love in Christ Jesus.

Roy UK     

 





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rjsurfs

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Re: I was just thinking!
« Reply #31 on: June 25, 2008, 02:04:07 PM »

Roy,

Where have I ever attacked you that you insist on calling me out by name?

You have not as yet PM'd me so I don't know what you are talking about... post it yourself if you are so inclined.

Since you have called me out twice now however I will remind you that we are here to discuss and question what we learn on bible-truths.com.  The guidelines state "If you come here to teach us, please take your teaching elsewhere."  Since you have addressed me as you have I will let you know that I'm not inclined to appreciate your "exercises"... I am here to discuss with like-minded friends what I learn on bible-truths.com... and that's it.

Bobby
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hillsbororiver

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Re: I was just thinking!
« Reply #32 on: June 25, 2008, 02:14:14 PM »

Hi Roy,

I believe this thread has caused many to do some soul searching and meditate deeper on our One on one relationship with God and His Spirit, I also want to thank you for the kind words you directed toward me.

However, (always a "but" or "however') you seemed to miss my comment (in blue) directly after Romans 8:7;



Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. (Here is our "beast" the carnal mind)

Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.


The beast is our carnal nature, our ego, our old man, etc. It is the natural man in his natural state, vain, self serving and the center of the universe (in his/our own minds).

Ecc 3:19  For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.

But we know this is all part of the process of being created into Sons and Daughters of God, it was not our idea to have this nature but the plan of our Father in heaven. (More from Romans Chapter 8)

Rom 8:20  For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,

His Peace and Wisdom to you all,

Joe
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Roy Monis

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Re: I was just thinking!
« Reply #33 on: June 25, 2008, 03:34:09 PM »

Hi! Joe

Thanks for your early response.

It's very true that we were created with the same breath as the beasts and as such have no preeminence over them. But that's as far as it goes, the beast is not being created in the image of God, hence the carnal brain of man who is being created in the image of God is by virtue of that fact far superior than that of the beast. And as you say it is this carnal mind that is enmity to God therefore we in the flesh cannot please God. And there is no denying the fact that the creature was created subject to vanity and not willingly, that's how God planned it in accord with His Will and not ours.

I see that as the challenge He has set us which we must overcome to enter the kingdom and that carnal mind  is what I believe Ray refers to as the "Beast Within." That is only my humble opinion, Joe, but that's how it appears to me. This is where I believe Satan has planted his tares in the midst of the wheat harvest, our neighbours. And it's these troublesome tares that have to be located, exposed and overcome.

We cannot sit back complacently and leave it all to the Spirit within to deal with, as suggested by Brenda, even though He is greater than the enemy without. Tares belong to Satan and Satan is in the world so they have to be exposed and brought out into Satan's world before they can be overcome with the aid of Him who is within.

You see Joe this whole thing is so clear but jumbled up in my brain that I am afraid of making a mess of it, I am not truly capable of expressing it clearly. Why the Lord has prompted me with it I don't know. All I know is that I have been constantly prodded into this situation, and I need the members prayers as much as anyone else on this forum. Am I making any sense, Joe. I have always respected, Kathy's, Joyce's, Beloved's, yours and everyone else's advice and all of you except for a few have been truly helpful and I'm grateful.

I deeply regret my grave error in musicmans post and other than a heartfelt apology I know of no other way to make amends. I will PM him a personal apology and pray he'll forgive my indiscretion.

I'm a bit confused at the moment Joe so please excuse me, God willing I'll feel a lot better tomorrow.

God bless you in our joint walk in Christ. 

Love in Christ Jesus.

Roy UK     


 
     
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KristaD

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Re: I was just thinking!
« Reply #34 on: June 25, 2008, 05:00:19 PM »

I am lost. I have not seen anyone disagreeing yet this keeps going back and forth. No one has denied that we all have the beast within us and that we are incapable of loving God as He commands without his help. I keep feeling that we are all being accused and I really don't know what of??? Perhaps Roy you have a suggestion as to what we can do, or maybe you are looking for agreement ??? Either way this seems so futile to me b/c we can not do good on our own and we are not able to overcome the beast alone. Is this just a call you feel to make us all ruminate on that fact? If it is then I think that has been accomplished and then some but perhaps He has led you to bring this up for you to hear the words of others and not to make us all understand what you are saying at this time. I am not at all disagreeing with anything that's been said here as it all rings true, but I think we error when we try to "call" others, that's for Him to do and we must accept that some things are for US at certain times and not for others just yet. We're on the same path but by no means are we all in the same place in our journeys.
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Kat

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Re: I was just thinking!
« Reply #35 on: June 25, 2008, 05:13:54 PM »


Hi Roy,

I thought I would bring these excerpt form the transcript 'HOW WE GOT THE BIBLE,'  as Ray mentions that the 'beast' is indeed our carnality within.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,5815.0.html ----------

Rev 1:1  The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show unto His servants, even the things which must shortly(quickly) come to pass: and He sent and signified it by His angel unto His servant John;
v
v
Rev 1:08  I am the Alpha and the Omega, says the Lord God, who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.

This was not in my notes, but it’s an important thing.  Some of you probably have not come to understand that you do not have free will, free moral agency or any of this nonsense that the theologians talk about.  You have an illusion of free will.  It seems like you have free will, of course it does, it part of the deception of human nature and the beast within.  Do you think animals have free will?  They act on instinct.
v
v
He just keeps repeating this over and over.  That He existed, He was killed, resurrected and He now is and He will come.  Everything in this book is and was and will come, see.  To every generation who reads this, He’s coming to you.  He came in the pass, He is coming now, He’ll come in the future.   How does this happen quickly?

It happens to you when you are born and have grown up big enough to read these pages and  God opens up your mind.   Then you have just so long to change your life, get rid of the beast, get rid of the carnality in you.  That’s got to be done quickly
------------------------------------------------

There are two Greek words in the NT for carnal.

Rom 8:7  Because the carnal 4561 mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Thayer Definition:
G4561 sarx - carnal
1) flesh (the soft substance of the living body, which covers the bones and is permeated with blood) of both man and beasts
2) the body
   2a) the body of a man
   2b) used of natural or physical origin, generation or relationship
      2b1) born of natural generation
   2c) the sensuous nature of man, “the animal nature”
      2c1) without any suggestion of depravity
      2c2) the animal nature with cravings which incite to sin
      2c3) the physical nature of man as subject to suffering
3) a living creature (because possessed of a body of flesh) whether man or beast
4) the flesh, denotes mere human nature, the earthly nature of man apart from divine influence, and therefore prone to sin and opposed to God

1Co 3:3  For ye are yet carnal 4559: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

Thayer Definition:
G4559 sarkikos - carnal
1) fleshly, carnal
   1a) having the nature of flesh, i.e. under the control of the animal appetites
      1a1) governed by mere human nature not by the Spirit of God
      1a2) having its seat in the animal nature or aroused by the animal nature
      1a3) human: with the included idea of depravity
   1b) pertaining to the flesh
      1b1) to the body: related to birth, linage, etc

Hope this helps.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

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indianabob

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Re: I was just thinking!
« Reply #36 on: June 26, 2008, 01:08:51 AM »

Kathy and moderators,

Please don't close or lock this thread until I can reread and copy the pertinent comments.
There is quite a bit to stimulate my self examination and I dread losing it.

Thank you, Indianabob :)
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Redbird

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Re: I was just thinking!
« Reply #37 on: June 26, 2008, 08:00:44 AM »

Hi Friends,

Well, Do We Love God?  I think I do much, because I do love myself and this enables me to better love my neighbor. And If loving myself constitutes loving my enemy (ego also), then I shall love it from a distance, until it diminishes into existence.  :)

Just a thought, in Jesus name,
Lisa
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Roy Monis

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Re: I was just thinking!
« Reply #38 on: June 26, 2008, 09:16:56 AM »

Hi! Everyone

Sadly despite my clear statement that I am not a teacher or attempting to teach anyone, I am being accused of teaching and bringing my own ideas on to this forum with the threat of having this thread locked. Ray is my teacher, God bless him, and I will always respect that.

It was through him that our eyes were opened as to who the True Israel of God is, it's us on this forum who have come out of Babylon. Previously I thought they were scattered round the world and in Palestine somewhere in the Jewish community. I praise God for Ray's inspired disclosure. I cannot see in what way I am going against Ray's teaching. His teachings are on a much higher level covering the complete Word of God, what I'm expressing is just a minor prod by the Spirit within me on a single issue. The gap between the two is as wide as the East is to the West, so in what way am I a threat?

Now that we know the location of the true Israel of God it is our duty under a specific command from God (Ezek.3) to take any message He gives us to the people of Israel. All I am guilty of is obeying His command. Am I doing wrong here?

The wheat and the Tares meant little to me until Ray opened the window and now the light that began to shine in me located the Tares and the Wheat. I believe, my opinion only from what I'm being prompted, the wheat are our neighbours the second of God's two commandments and the Tares are Satan's goodies that are being stored up by the "I" the beast within. It's only an opinion, not a teaching, is that not the purpose of this forum to share?

Indeed it has unleashed a mountain of baddies which the beast within has stored up and it seems impossible for us to conquer them all, but are we not taught, by Ray, that all things are possible with God, which is very true?
Joe very kindly drew our attention to a number of Scriptures from Romans that indicated we are in Spirit and we walk in Spirit which is the key to our defense.

Are we not taught that in order to fight the evil forces we must: "10 Finally, be strong in the Lord and in the strength of His might. 11 Put on the full armor of God, so that you will be able to stand firm against the schemes of the devil. 12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places. 13 Therefore, take up the full armor of God, so that you will be able to resist in the evil day, and having done everything, to stand firm. 14 Stand firm therefore, having girded your loins with truth, and having put on the breastplate of righteousness, 15 and having shod your feet with the preparation of the gospel of peace; 16 in addition to all, taking up the shield of faith with which you will be able to extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. 17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God. 18 With all prayer and petition pray at all times in the Spirit, and with this in view, be on the alert with all perseverance and petition for all the saints, 19 and pray on my behalf, that utterance may be given to me in the opening of my mouth, to make known with boldness the mystery of the gospel, 20 for which I am an ambassador in chains; that in proclaiming it I may speak boldly, as I ought to speak. 21 But that you also may know about my circumstances, how I am doing, Tychicus, the beloved brother and faithful minister in the Lord, will make everything known to you. 22 I have sent him to you for this very purpose, so that you may know about us, and that he may comfort your hearts. 23 Peace be to the brethren, and love with faith, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.  24 Grace be with all those who love our Lord Jesus Christ with incorruptible love." (Eph.6:10-24).

Is this not what we are being taught on this very site by Ray, so why am I being accused of bringing strange or my own teachings on to it?

Someone suggested that to conquer all these character flaws was an impossible task. I agree, the Bible says so, but it also says that nothing is impossible with God. And Joe has given us the answer to that problem, the Spirit.

Then Brenda suggested that the One within is more powerful than him without. I couldn't agree more and it is in agreement with Ray's teachings.

But now there are two within us The Spirit and the enemy's agent "I" the beast within, also Ray's teaching which I wouldn't have known about had it not been for him. But the Spirit within is powerless to deal with the "I" which belongs to Satan on the outside until it is brought into the light where he can be seen. It is now when he is exposed that we must gird ourselves with the Armour provided by God and attack the "I" and OVERCOME him. (Rev.2:7,11,17,26) (Rev.3:5,12,21).

Ray has emphasized the necessity to OVERCOME it is not my teaching, all I am saying here is what I have learned on this site from Ray and you'll find it all if you take the trouble to read all his writings without me quoting each and every one. The message I posted is mine it is what I received and I am quite innocently sharing it and mean no harm or disrespect for anyone or anything.

Now please tell me where I have gone wrong other than pull you out of your complacency and make you sit up and think?  And why the threat of locking the post? If we truly walk by the SPIRIT what is it we are afraid of?

God bless you all, I have only obeyed God's command, nothing else, and if I'm condemned for that so be it. I will dutifully accept your decision. Those who accuse me of introducing my own teachings need to examine their views on being judgmental. "Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed that he does not fall."  (1Cor.10:12)

God bless you brothers and sisters in our joint walk in Christ. 

Love in Christ Jesus.

Roy UK     
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Beloved

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Re: I was just thinking!
« Reply #39 on: June 26, 2008, 10:04:09 AM »

his post has been enlightening to me. We come to the forum to fellowship. Yet here we some acting like James and John ....looking to be first.
 
Gal 5:13  For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.

Joh 12:26  If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honor.

I agree on some level we are all struggling with answering the question posited.  Many posters have made some excellent points. Others seem to be struggling more with Roy. because he seems to be playing a quessing game. The way I see it that he is trying to provoke us to really thinking about this subject. 

Those in the "church" are like kids saying .....yes we love you daddy....but their actions speak louder.

What do our actions show? Can we be patient with each other, can we be kind and trusting.

Okay folks I will go first...I am mushey gushey and I am not sure why Dewey posted his comments here rather than on the thread which he started and where he feels he was slighted. 

If any of us have a problem with another PM or post it. If you post it you can embarress the other ......do you want to do that? (by the way Dewey I was not one bit upset, in fact I marvel that you held all that that in so long.)

On the other hand we have to be able to take criticisms...being rejected is also part of the training program. Those snide remarks that are some times are made .....hurt....and we have all had them and given them.  Sometimes we all need to take a break, rest in the Lord and study the Word more before we can come together.

Second none of us seem to be getting the answer Roy is looking for and we are feeling frustrated and challenged. I know my own posts did not have depth, I wasn't trying to 'get' the answer I was putting a puzzle piece down.  I really enjoyed seeing all the different perspectives and hope people will continue to think about it. 

This is Robert Frost shortest poem
"We sit in a circle and suppose but the answer sits in the middle and knows".

The Answer is God and His Son Jesus Christ...we are all sitting here with little bits of information. Flotsom and jetsom

2Co 13:11  Finally, brethren, farewell. Be perfect, be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with you.

Rom 15:6  That ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.


In closing like Gina once said...we gotta play nice...
So true......especially if we children of God want to become the sons of God


Beloved
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