> General Discussions
"Specially"
hillsbororiver:
Bobby,
That is a very perspective observation, the appearance of sowing discord or being contrary for the sole purpose of debating is something we are admonished to refrain from; [Rom 1:29-32, 2Cor 12:20]
If a car is "specially" equipped on the production line does that mean that all the other cars are to be deemed obsolete and demolished?
If a computer is "specially" equipped with a braille keyboard does that mean all other keyboards are worthless and should be destroyed?
If a child is "specially" gifted in math do we then refrain from teaching the other children mathmatics?
As I (and others) stated earlier in this thread being "special" is not being totally unique, standing alone without comparison to anything like it, it is just another part of a greater whole that may have attributes or handicaps which differentiates from the status quo.
Peace,
Joe
Paul:
--- Quote from: Craig on July 08, 2008, 05:20:46 AM ---
--- Quote ---If something is specially made for me... Don't you see? It can indirectly mean exclusivity.
--- End quote ---
Yes Paul, you are correct I see where you can see exclusivity in your statement.
If I say, "I make suits specially for Paul" that can mean exclusivity. But of course if I say, "I make suits for all men but specially for Paul" then that is not exclusive. I'm glad you see the difference.
--- End quote ---
Yes, and as a matter of fact 1 Timothy 4:10, in the Tyndale New Testament, the first predecessor to the KJV, reads just like your second example:
For therefore we labour and suffer rebuke because we believe in the living god which is the saviour of all men: but specially of those that believe.
:)
But I'm gonna point out that your second example is bad English. You simply can't use specially in the same ways they did back in the 15th and 16th centuries.
"I make suits for all men but specially for Paul"
Who would say that? Wouldn't a person say "I make suits for all men; but for Paul, I make them specially."
--- Quote from: Craig on July 08, 2008, 05:20:46 AM ---
--- Quote ---Because the way the word is used in 1 Timothy 4:10 and Titus 1:10 is obsolete (a flat-out synonym for especially), the best verse for Universalism in the Bible doesn't make sense. On the contrary, one could interpret it to mean "exclusively of those who believe."
--- End quote ---
No I see no way that verse can ever be interpreted exclusively.
Craig
--- End quote ---
The only place I've ever seen a comma specially -- specially as a synonym for especially ("...many unruly and vain talkers, specially they of the circumcision." Tit. 1:10) is in the King James Bible and its predecessors. All I'm saying is the verse probably doesn't sound right to a lot of people. Specially is never used that way in modern English. Notice how you used "but specially" in your suits example above. You put a but there because just putting specially after a comma doesn't make sense in today's English.
I like bibletruths.com, specially the Lake of Fire series.
See? It sounds out of place. A person might not associate the word with especially; they might associate it with its exclusivity connotation. So far I've heard two King James Onlyists interpret the verse the following way:
For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is specially the savior of those that believe.
Even that doesn't necessarily mean Jesus is only the savior of those that believe. However, when you interpret the verse that way, it loses its value. It leaves open the question of whether or not non-believers will be saved.
All I'm saying is that in our day and age, the word specially can bear that exclusivity connotation quite often; the way its used in 1 Timothy 4:10 is obsolete. Thus, a person might not see past the context; they're mind will just go: specially: exclusively. It's understandable that a person wouldn't see the verse as proof (the ultimate proof) of Universal salvation.
However
I fail to see any excuse for not realizing the word does mean especially after seeing Titus 1:10.
Craig:
O.K
Remember though, even if Timothy would happen to read
"For therefore we labour and suffer rebuke because we believe in the living god which is the saviour specially of those that believe."
A statement of fact is not necessarily a statement of limitation, you would have to consider all the scripture and as Bobby said the good news of a Father who will save all mankind is everywhere, and I do mean EVERYWHERE in scripture.
Craig
Paul:
--- Quote from: Craig on July 08, 2008, 07:33:22 AM ---O.K
Remember though, even if Timothy would happen to read
"For therefore we labour and suffer rebuke because we believe in the living god which is the saviour specially of those that believe."
A statement of fact is not necessarily a statement of limitation
--- End quote ---
Yup, that's the phrase I needed :)
Kat:
Hi Paul,
For those that have their eyes opened, that is a solid proof Scripture. Now for those who have not had their eyes opened, they will have plenty of excuses not to believe this. They see nothing spiritual in any of the words of the Bible. The Bible is not a spiritual book to them and they can not understand these spiritual truths.
I think the King James Onlyists are trying to make that translation of the Bible more important than the message it brings. You can't make blind people see and understand this truth, no more than you could before your eyes were opened.
Jer 14:14 And the LORD said to me, "The prophets prophesy lies in My name. I have not sent them, commanded them, nor spoken to them; they prophesy to you a false vision, divination, a worthless thing, and the deceit of their heart.
They are intended to be blind and deceived at this time. But one day they will give up their foolish arguments, when the return of Jesus Christ will set everything right.
Eze 21:4 Because I will cut off both righteous and wicked from you, therefore My sword shall go out of its sheath against all flesh from south to north,
v. 5 that all flesh may know that I, the LORD, have drawn My sword out of its sheath; it shall not return anymore."'
v. 6 Sigh therefore, son of man, with a breaking heart, and sigh with bitterness before their eyes.
v. 7 And it shall be when they say to you, "Why are you sighing?' that you shall answer, "Because of the news; when it comes, every heart will melt, all hands will be feeble, every spirit will faint, and all knees will be weak as water. Behold, it is coming and shall be brought to pass,' says the Lord GOD."
mercy, peace and love
Kat
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