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"Specially"
Paul:
--- Quote from: Chris R on July 09, 2008, 06:04:06 AM ---I'm quite sure you have a point to make, so lets hear it.
--- End quote ---
I just find it to be odd that you'd take a type of people and just call them all rude.
joyful1:
Hi Paul--
Paul, himself, was "of the circumcision." I think he was trying to point out to Titus, a Greek, that the men coming out of "the church of his (Paul's) day" those of the circumcision, might easily continue in the "puffed up manner" of those trained in the old traditions, the traditions of men. He was trying to help Titus select good bishops. From his (Paul's) own experience he knew the challenges that these men would face in "overcoming" the temptation of returning to this religious mindset. Just my opinion.
Joyce :)
hillsbororiver:
So true Chris,
This speaks of the physical "religious" Jews as well as the "spiritual" Jews of Christianity.
We can certaily see the following verse is not for physical Jews only, actually it applies to more than the mainstream denominations as well since from time to time we see the same sort of "vain babblings" and "oppositions" right here in this Forum. We must all be on guard!
1Ti 6:20 O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:
1Ti 6:21 Which some professing have erred concerning the faith. Grace be with thee. Amen.
Peace,
Joe
joyful1:
:D one more note....seeing as how others have posted while I was typing...slow here...sorry! :)
I don't think Paul was calling a "people group" i.e. the descendants of Abraham, liars. He knew better than that because he said that "this witness is true" that these same men, "those of the church of his day" were calling OTHER people groups names.
10For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision:
11Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake.
12One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, the Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies.
13This witness is true. (It's true that they of the circumcision call the Cretians, an entire people group, liars, etc.) Wherefore rebuke them (they of the circumcision) sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;
Paul's emphasis was on "they of the circumcision." This is a "ritual" which he would NOT impose on new believers. It was a trade mark of those that "clung to the traditions of men," for the sake of "keeping the letter of the law." Paul began this letter with :
Titus 1:1
1Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;
He'd come out of that "religious" group and wanted to warn Titus that these traditions were harmful, to be aware of them.
I think Paul's admonition was of "a religious" set of rules NOT of a people group: the Jews. The Jews are not named.
Again...this is my opinion and understanding and I am open to correction.
Joyce :)
Samson:
Hello Everyone,
This is a good thread transpiring, I've listened to Ray's Audio regarding " Does All mean All " several times(approx 5 times) and he stated that their is more than one way to skin a cat. I get the impression that the Scripture at 2Peter. 3:9 is more effective in proving the Salvation of all than the ones that state " All will be saved". He uses the negative sense to prove the positive outcome; " He doesn't desire, want, wish or will any to be destroyed or perish(GK-Oleutron primarily means losing or lost). As Ray explains, this is not wishfull thinking on God's part, because the Greek word for WILL is the strong form or absolute form of the word Will, although it's usually rendered in most translations as desire. So if God WILLS that NONE will perish or be lost, their can't be any in that group of people, so if their not Lost or destroyed, they must be saved.
Samson.
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