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Going to church?
Dave in Tenn:
I'm not facing this as a parent, so I sympathize more than empathize. But is there a way you can lead a devotional? Three verses a week shouldn't be too hard, if you can lead at least your kids to understand that scripture is more important to you than tradition.
To bring Ray up in this thread: Has he suggested that it is wrong to take communion? I know he shares what the scriptures say about it being a physical ritual with no power to increase your 'holiness', but he's also said he has no problem with people who do it. There might be something about Catholic belief that would make that more troublesome than it might be for me...I just don't know. Just something to consider.
EKnight:
Dave-I just couldn't receive communion, it's so bogus to me now. I actually feel bad saying that because truthfully, had I not been raised in faith, Catholic or otherwise, I sincerely believe I would not be here today or the person I am today. So I am somewhat grateful for the way my parents raised me. I was married in the Catholic church and my husband and I took our vows before God seriously because of it. I have a had time putting the Catholic church down. After all, I have loved ones who are sincere in their faith and if I condemn Catholicism, I feel like I am condemning them and I would never want to do that. They are all good people. My family, immediate and extended, are very important to me. I've never really had or needed friends because I have a close family. In fact 5 of 11 of us still vacation in NC every summer. So I don't want to alienate them
As for reading scripture to my kids(22,20 and 17)......well, that'll never happen. They don't listen to me as it is. They are college students in the world and they are as carnal as they come. I pray they seek God out some day and hopefully come to me. My daughter is the only one who listens to me these days and up until April she and my husband and myself were the only one attending church on a regular basis anyway. I do, however, speak aloud of the things I am learning here so I am hoping seeds are being planted. I just don't want them to stray so far from faith that they never return and seeing me attend mass was an outward sign of my faith and now they don't see that and it concerns me how this may or may not effect them.
Sorry for being so long-winded and baring my soul here but I feel lonely in this newfound faith when my family isn't on the same page. I am always working on my husband and he believes a lot but is not reading these things and not seeking the way I am and I feel he should. I know, I know unless the Father drag (draw) him.....but still it's difficult.
Well thanks for listening once again.
Eileen
digitalwise:
--- Quote from: Paul on July 14, 2008, 08:40:09 AM ---Why would you want to go to a church that isn't even remotely close to Ray's teachings?
--- End quote ---
This is a very good question. I'll use this question to answer in a wisdom based way.
IMHO, the issue here is not a dilution of truth, but a matter of COMMUNITY. As our sons and daughters grow into adulthood, we carry the burden in not isolating them from ritual participation whilst still finding true faith toward God. Any reforming Christian faces many dilemmas.
If we go back to history, Martin Luther faced many things. The sheep of the fold the Catholic Church were scattered at this time of upheaval. Yet it was in the purpose of God to do so. The vice iron grip of Roman theology defaced the gospel for centuries as other entrenched traditional heretical beliefs have done down throughout the centuries.
Certain rituals remain - being married as a community declaration before God by faith. For this we have Celebrants, of which I myself am empowered by the state to do so here in Australia. The ceremony then can be as full of faith toward God as much as the ritual church ceremony. It can be in a secular community gathering. I seem absolutely no harm in partaking of Communion, subject to our heart faith toward God. It is ritual of remembrance of the Life, death and Resurrection hope found in Christ and by his blood and body of compassion at His cruxifiction. The spotless Lamb of God who TAKES AWAY the sins of WHAT? - the elect, the holy, NO! WHO TAKES away the sins of the SINS of the WORLD!
That aside, please do NOT fall into the trap in being militant. For there are those we know as Jesus said who take the Kingdom of God by force and violence. Our doctrine is to shaped in the gospel of compassion and aiding those around us to come to the love of the truth. In Luther's day [see the new movie] - there were those who wanted to burn everything with fire. Any idol, any cross, any painting were to be burned in fire and the temples of the old torn down. This reminds of the Hellistic evangelists who threaten the world with their spiteful god and fire eternity. In that past history came genocide within ancient Germany. Was it the fault of Luther's doctrine? No a handful of leaders grasped the truths of papal heresies so violently that it led to violence, killing, destruction and death.
But we are to be of another mindset. Let the teachings of Ray and many others throughout the world [Australia] that are reformational "wash" over you. Allow the cleansing to be by new found faith discovery and not by fire or sword. Allow our fresh love of truth found in our Lord bring me and you into the light but let us take others with us on this journey of peace and discovery. Let's marvel at the Grace for us now and for the world whilst instilling the same journey of our faith into our sons and daughters.
digitalwise
Samson:
Hello Eileen,
Firstly, I want to make it clear that I have no desire to be Judgemental towards anyone that still goes to Church to any degree. Personally, I have no desire to attend any of the various Churches, I don't think I want to spiritually fellowship with anyone that teaches and supports the major falsehoods that are supported by the various denominations of Christendom. Insofar as attending someone's wedding or funeral, personally I don't have a problem with that, obviously when we attend a Funeral, we wouldn't support the notion that the individual that passed away, went to Heaven or something of that nature, but our conscience might lead us to attend out of respect for that person and to support the family members.
After leaving the JW'S in 2003, I didn't have any desire or interest in going back to the Churches, through my research, I reasoned they had many errors as part of their belief structure and didn't see any sense in subjecting myself on a regular basis to any of these errors, the only exception would most likely be Weddings and Funerals. I spent most of the interim time from 2003-2008 researching my former beliefs, examining others and proceeding to discard whatever wasn't supported by Scripture or not being overly concerned with matters that were of a minor nature or where the Scriptures were essentially silent or not explicitly clear, so as not to be dogmatic about it. Of course this research eventually led me here at Bible-Truths. Attaining some type of Christian Fellowship was lacking in my life, but that need is satisfied at this Forum.
Hope this helps, but once again, this is my preference and is not intended or desired on my part form some Judgement towards you or any Forum member that chooses otherwise.
My regards, Samson.
musicman:
--- Quote from: EKnight on July 14, 2008, 04:19:00 PM ---
--- Quote from: Paul on July 14, 2008, 08:40:09 AM ---Why would you want to go to a church that isn't even remotely close to Ray's teachings?
--- End quote ---
I don't. I just feel for the rest of my family(my husband and kids) that there is a lack of structured worship and so they don't do anything. At least they used to hear a reading from the old testament and two from the new testament on Sundays. But since I found BT, they don't do anything.
Eileen
--- End quote ---
They don't do anything? That's terrible. Well, football season is coming soon and then they will have plenty to do (while sitting on the couch, drinking beer, belching, etc.). We must remember that when listening to a preacher reading scripture, that it is hard to cover ones ear when they start flapping off with their Babylonian fill ins. Besides, who can listen to a sermon while their favorite team is at the 10 yard line? Can't be done!!
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