> General Discussions
What is required of a disciple?
shibboleth:
Thank you Steve for posting Mikes article. I have been listening to Mike and Rays teaching on my computor as I have time. I believe they are both wise and learned men and I agree with almost everything they say.
What really bothers me about a few people on this forum, is their inability to commit to doctrinal issues and truths. Anytime a controversial doctrine is posted, some attack the one bringing the doctrine. Scriptures are quoted that supposedly contradict the doctrine in an effort to shut those of us up who believe in the importance of rightly dividing the truth.
Knowledge was mentioned by someone and how it will fail. But try to live life on this earth without knowledge. Line upon line, precept upon precept is how our knowledge is to grow. But, knowledge without wisdom or discenment can be a dangerous and haught thing. But let's not underestimate the importance of knowledge.
Isn't doctrine a part of love? Isn't it loving to "teach the truth in love?"
Proverbs 4:2 For I give you good DOCTRINE, forsake ye not my law.
Isaiah 28:9 Whom shall he teach KNOWLEDGE? And whom shall he make to understand DOCTRINE? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
In Mt1:22 people were astonished at Jesus DOCTRINE because he taught as one who had authority. In Luke 4:32 Jesus astonished those in Capernaum because of his DOCTRINE: for his word was with power. John 7:17 says If we do Jesus will you will know of the DOCTRINE wheter it is of God. Acts 2:42 The believers continued stedfastly in the apostles DOCTRINE and fellowship and in breaking bread, and in prayers. In Ephesians 4:14-16 we are told: That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of DOCTRINE, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, wherby they lie in wait to deceive; But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ; from whom the whole body fitly joined together together and compacted by that which every joint supplies, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love. 1Tim.1:3 Teach no other DOCTRINE vs 10 Teach sound DOCTRINE. 1 Tim.4:6 Be nourished in the faith and good DOCTRINE.
So, if doctrine is a secondary issue, how do you explain these scriptures that admonish us to learn, teach and continue in doctrine? And what do these scriptures mean if we don't take them at face value.
Many times people who accuse others of being unloving, unkind judgmental are exhibiting those very behaviours themselves in their accusations. There doesn't seem to be much patience for those of us who want to contend for the faith and hold fast the word of truth.
I came to BT because I agree with almost all of Ray and Mikes writings. I believe they have a special gift of understanding deep truths in the scriptures. But, until God confirms something in my spirit I cannot say I agree with it. There are some things they teach, I don't know it they are true or not. But, I have studied and prayed about them and I still don't know. So, for now, I just have to believe that God doesn't want me to see the truth on a doctrinal issue, so I just wait until He reveals it to me.
SteveB:
What really bothers me about a fe
--- Quote ---Thank you Steve for posting Mikes article. I have been listening to Mike and Rays teaching on my computor as I have time. I believe they are both wise and learned men and I agree with almost everything they say.
--- End quote ---
**Almost isnt good enough in Chirsts mind. Thats what being of one mind is all about. Could Ray or Mike be wrong in something they write? Yes, they could. Could I. Yes. As you've said before Peter was wrong and Paul confronted him about it.
So how can we be of one mind and have the ability to be wrong? We must judge the spririts, confront as Paul did, if your brother listens we've gained our brother. If not he MUST be put out for the desturction of the flesh,so the spirit my be saved. This is the prescription for 'disagreement'. By those LEAST esteemed in the church(i.e. Paul). **
--- Quote ---Isn't doctrine a part of love? Isn't it loving to "teach the truth in love?"
Proverbs 4:2 For I give you good DOCTRINE, forsake ye not my law.
Isaiah 28:9 Whom shall he teach KNOWLEDGE? And whom shall he make to understand DOCTRINE? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
--- End quote ---
**I would underscore 'good' doctrine and the latter of not forsaking my law as well.**
--- Quote ---In Mt1:22 people were astonished at Jesus DOCTRINE because he taught as one who had authority. In Luke 4:32 Jesus astonished those in Capernaum because of his DOCTRINE: for his word was with power. John 7:17 says If we do Jesus will you will know of the DOCTRINE wheter it is of God. Acts 2:42 The believers continued stedfastly in the apostles DOCTRINE and fellowship and in breaking bread, and in prayers. In Ephesians 4:14-16 we are told: That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of DOCTRINE, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, wherby they lie in wait to deceive; But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ; from whom the whole body fitly joined together together and compacted by that which every joint supplies, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love. 1Tim.1:3 Teach no other DOCTRINE vs 10 Teach sound DOCTRINE. 1 Tim.4:6 Be nourished in the faith and good DOCTRINE.
So, if doctrine is a secondary issue, how do you explain these scriptures that admonish us to learn, teach and continue in doctrine? And what do these scriptures mean if we don't take them at face value.
--- End quote ---
**The whole point why I posted was to exhort to this SOUND doctrine.**
--- Quote ---Many times people who accuse others of being unloving, unkind judgmental are exhibiting those very behaviours themselves in their accusations. There doesn't seem to be much patience for those of us who want to contend for the faith and hold fast the word of truth.
--- End quote ---
**Many times people do, do that. Patience is a virtue i'm learning everyday. But 'conteding for the faith' and 'holding fast the word of truth'
is the rendered MEANINGLESS when there is division AMONG US. Paul tells us those that are NOT of one mine and only agree 'on the essentials' are carnal. You say that you agree with 'most' things. Paul says you must agree in ALL things. Which should be do?**
--- Quote ---I came to BT because I agree with almost all of Ray and Mikes writings. I believe they have a special gift of understanding deep truths in the scriptures. But, until God confirms something in my spirit I cannot say I agree with it. There are some things they teach, I don't know it they are true or not. But, I have studied and prayed about them and I still don't know. So, for now, I just have to believe that God doesn't want me to see the truth on a doctrinal issue, so I just wait until He reveals it to me.
--- End quote ---
**If thats where God has you thats where he has you. I dont despise my brothers because they MAY be eating herbs. Waiting on God is all you can do. I pray Gods will in your life. BUT the scriptures point still stands. Christ disciples hear His voice and a stranger they will not follow. I know one day we will ALL be ONE MIND. Even so come, Lord Jesus.
Love...Steve**
Daniel:
Don't yous think theres much we all must learn? Who can possibility be an expert or authority on it, or make that claim?
I know for me personally I don't have the details filled in. I have many things to learn and unlearn, don't we all?
Can't these exist and we still be of one mind?
Daniel
SteveB:
--- Quote ---Don't yous think theres much we all must learn? Who can possibility be an expert or authority on it, or make that claim?
--- End quote ---
Learning is a process that never stops, line apon line etc.
Being an 'expert' is something to strive for but speaking with authority ABOUT WHAT YOU KNOW is required. Christ is our authority and as he IS, so are we. :D
--- Quote ---I know for me personally I don't have the details filled in. I have many things to learn and unlearn, don't we all?
--- End quote ---
I certainly dont have ALL the details and have many things to learn and unlearn. But we can speak and preach the things given for the FEW to know. And speak BOLDLY, at that.
--- Quote ---Can't these exist and we still be of one mind?
--- End quote ---
If we cant speak with authority how can we even know what being of 'one mind' is?
Gill:
--- Quote from: Daniel ---
I know for me personally I don't have the details filled in. I have many things to learn and unlearn, don't we all?
Can't these exist and we still be of one mind?
Daniel
--- End quote ---
I hope so, Daniel. Otherwise all of us are on our own.
SteveB wrote:
--- Quote ---Almost isnt good enough in Chirsts mind. Thats what being of one mind is all about. Could Ray or Mike be wrong in something they write? Yes, they could. Could I. Yes. As you've said before Peter was wrong and Paul confronted him about it.
--- End quote ---
You really think this way, Steve? So, Mike or Ray could be wrong in something but you'll 'go along with it', saying that you believe it too, just so that you can be of 'one mind'? Is this really what being of 'one mind' means? Sounds and feels more like a cult-like experience to me, and I'm sure that neither Mike or Ray would have anyone just 'go along' with what they teach? Maybe i've misunderstood what you're saying.
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