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Here is a good question to Ray from someone
AK4:
There is this one guys writing on this subject that i read that might be pretty much on it. I've read everything on his site too and he's a pretty sound guy. Not quite on the same level with Ray (i've never read anyone up there with Ray), some slight differences, but almost everything the same at least when it comes to eternal torment (hell). His name is Gerry Watts. He writes on first & second resurrection and what he thinks 1000 yrs means.
I would have to read his stuff again to see how sound he is now, knowing what i think i know. Look him up.
Kat:
Hi Anthony,
I glanced over his articles and as far as I could tell all that Gerry Watts and Ray have in common are universal reconciliation.
Darren, I think your getting it. But "the judgment" comes at the resurrection of the dead. The Elect will be raised first, as for the "first" resurrection.
Rev 19:11 Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war.
v. 12 His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself.
v. 13 He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God.
v. 14 And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses.
Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
v. 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished (spurious). This is the first resurrection.
v.6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years (figurative number).
The Elect will return with Christ first, as in verse 4 they will be there when the rest are raised and judged as "judgment was committed to them." Then comes the resurrection of the dead/white throne judgment.
Rev 20:11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them.
v.12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.
What I see is there is this order, but I think that all this will probably happen rapidly and prehaps on the same day. Can't say what happens next and this is my opinion, I hope it helps :)
mercy, peace and love
Kat
AK4:
--- Quote ---Hi Anthony,
I glanced over his articles and as far as I could tell all that Gerry Watts and Ray have in common are universal reconciliation.
--- End quote ---
You're right Kat, i glanced over his stuff again and thats about all they have in common. Rays insight is on a much higher plane.
but heres my question Kat
Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
v. 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished (spurious). This is the first resurrection.
v.6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years (figurative number).
This verse isn't supposed to be here? And since the book of Revelations is a book of symbols could it be that we shouldnt take the word resurrection in these verses literally, but that it means something even higher that what it is/stands for?
In Jesus,
Anthony
AK4:
Hi all,
I will leave the revelations to Ray but i just wondered what you think.
Since Satan is the prince of the power of the air (Eph 2:2) and he will be dethroned and bound or thrown down into the Abyss (Rev20:1-4) and When Christ returns and we will meet Him and the resurrected saints in the air (1Th 4:17) (air--literaly or figuratively? Could this mean that are minds and eyes are completely opened (in heaven) where the principalities and powers and thrones are(Eph 3:10, 6:12 and Col 1:16). Therefore we will sit on "thrones" and riegn with Christ and judge and heal the nations for the 1000 yrs (an eon/age?)(Rev 20:4)
If this was the scenario wouldnt it be just one resurrection because if all the people who get raised in the first resurrection are now Holy, who would be left to judge and heal if those who come up in a different resurrection are not there yet? The Elect and the Dead in Christ will be changed with bodies like Christ probably with the ability to appear in flesh and dissapear into the spiritual the way Jesus did to the disciples after his resurrection. In this way they will be able to help heal the nations who are now going through this LOF in there physical bodies again, on earth too.
I dont know. This is way over my head right now.
What you guys think
OBrenda:
Don't know enough about it, but somethng that stands out to me is about the saints being beheaded ? ???
Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
If the Beast Operates in our Mind? [Head]
:-\
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