> General Discussions
How successful have you been at opening people's eyes?
legoman:
Hi frecklegirl,
I'm glad you are still able to talk to your mother about it and keep discussing it, even though her eyes haven't opened yet. This gives me a bit of encouragment that I may be able to talk about this with my parents.
I went and reread Ray's article on "Winning souls" - good food for thought in there. I thought two these statements were very relevant:
'It is ALL OF GOD. It is not wrong to tell others of your knowledge of God and His Word. It is not, however, your responsibility to "get people saved." Only God can do that.'
'How to demonstrate your knowledge of the truth: Your good works and righteous character will pay dividends to others eventually—if not in this life, then in the Judgment.'
This gives me a bit of confidence that spreading the truth to others is not futile. What we do is God's will - but we can't expect to get the results we want - only God can do that. But perhaps the best way we can spread the truth is by demonstrating it in our own lives.
Anyway the thing that really opened my eyes was realizing that "eternal/forever" didn't really mean what I thought it did, and realizing it was a mistranslation. That was what did it for me. I think if I can somehow convey this to my Mom, she may have her eyes opened too. But the approach will be tricky.
I realize many people don't want to know the truth or have their eyes opened. I mean it really takes a certain type of person - look at the average public, most people don't read and are just glued to the TV. How many people would actually read through one of Ray's articles (let alone the bible) and actually get throught the whole thing without giving up? Ray is a good writer, but his articles are so long and so chock full of information, information that you should cross-check for yourself against the bible. Most people don't have the patience I believe, and are just happy to go along with their preconceived existence.
Cheers,
Legoman
mharrell08:
--- Quote from: legoman on September 03, 2008, 07:36:34 AM ---For those that have tried to open eyes of their close family... what happened after? Especially if the light bulb did not go on so to speak, what did they think of you after? Did they just forget about it? Or did they now think of you as the black sheep with the "kooky new age" ideas?
--- End quote ---
I tried unsucessfully (of course) with my wife, mother, and sister who is married to a Baptist minister. I got the look like I had 3 eyes and the obligatory moment of silence. No, it is just a subject that the 3 of them completely ignore when talking to me. They will talk about ANYTHING else but the most important subject in the world, they refuse to discuss.
This is the Lord serving me 'humble pie'. And He is serving it in BIG scoopfuls. ;)
Thanks,
Marques
legoman:
LOL Marques. I will let you know when I actually raise the subject with my family again. I may be eating my own 'humble pie' too.
Kat:
Hi Kevin,
I really think you are a bit confused about the sovereignty of God. First you state, I totally agree that only God can draw people in, but he does use us to achieve his will.
The fact is the Elect are predetermined, either your family will be called in this age or they won't and there is nothing you can do about it :-\
Eph 1:4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love,
v.5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,
When we fully get our minds wrapped around this we understand that God will choose those exactly when He planned. We need not worry or try to think of a way to best approach them with the truth.
Luke 21:14 Therefore settle it in your hearts not to meditate beforehand on what you will answer;
v. 15 for I will give you a mouth and wisdom which all your adversaries will not be able to contradict or resist.
But we are to be concentrating on "study to show yourself approved" (2Tim. 2:15). If we are a part of bringing a family member to the truth, that's great. But you do not need to plan how to do it and when is the best time to approach them and what to say and all that. It will go the way God has already decided it. We can't mess up or make God's plan better, it is what it is. I think our efforts should be directed towards our own salvation, God will take care of the rest.
Php 2:12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;
mercy, peace and love
Kat
legoman:
Hi Kat,
I don't think I am as confused as you think I am :) at least I hope not...
First of all, I don't even know if I am one of the elect! I mean, I have had these truths revealed to me, but don't know if I can humble and purge myself enough to be able to enter the Kingdom of God. Now the way I wrote that sentence it looks like there is free will in there, but when I say "I can humble" and I can "purge" I really mean - is it God will's for me? Or is it not. I don't think anyone knows for sure if they are part of the elect.
--- Quote ---We need not worry or try to think of a way to best approach them with the truth.
--- End quote ---
Here is how I see it. I 100% agree with you that God's elect are predetermined. Either my family will be called or they won't be called. I know I can't change that. God is 100% sovereign. I completely understand that. We cannot affect his will.
However, I don't know the future. Will my parents be called or not? I don't know - only God knows. Therefore I must try. How do I know that I won't be the instrument that reveals the truth to my parents? That could be God's plan to bring my parents into the elect. If I worry and plan about how to approach them, then it must have been God's will that I worry and plan how to approach them. Because we can only do God's will. Just like when Pharoah hardened his heart, it was God's will that Pharoah harden his heart.
Here are the possible outcomes:
1. I show the truth to my parents, discuss with them, show them Ray's papers etc. The light bulb goes on for them. Yay! It was God's will and my parents were predestined to know thow the truth!
2. I show the truth to my parents, discuss, etc. The light bulb doesn't go on. Oh well, I guess it wasn't predestined for them, but I was still predestined to reveal the truth to them. Yay! Its all part of God's will!
3. I don't reveal the truth to my parents for some reason (maybe I chicken out, maybe we don't get a chance to discuss it for whatever reason). So my parents never here the truth. Guess they weren't predestined to know the truth, and I wasn't predestined to talk to them about it. Yay! Its all part of God's will!
4. I don't reveal the truth etc. But somehow my parents have the truth revealed to them. Again I wasn't predestined to reveal the truth to them, but they were predestined to learn it! Yay again! It's God's will.
The tricky part is I don't know which outcome will happen, only God knows. However the common thing is, no matter which outcome actually happens, it must have been God's will, because that is the outcome that happened.
So I might as well try to reveal the truth to them. If it doesn't happen, it wasn't meant to be (it wasn't God's will).
I hope this makes sense to you. And its why I still believe its valid to share the truth with others. Its not that I'm trying to change God's sovereign plan. That is impossible. But you, me, Ray (obviously), and everyone is a part of God's plan. If you don't feel the need to worry about sharing these truths, then it must have been God's will for you not to feel the need to worry about sharing these truths. Everything we do is part of God's plan, right?
Cheers,
Kevin
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