> General Discussions
How successful have you been at opening people's eyes?
David:
Legoman,
You'll come to see pretty quickly that trying to open people eyes to the truths you are seeing is a waste of your time, and actually resisting God.
When God decides you are ready to share what He has revealed to you through teachers, if indeed He does, then God will draw people to you, people God has chosen. Many are called, few are chosen. Don't expect to be opening the eyes of many people at all. We all feel that excitement to begin with and want to shout it from the rooftops that we've been freed from the vile doctrines of Babylon, but its a waste of time.
Speaking of my own experiences, once I got over the initial elation and wanting to share what I'd seen with the whole world, the people God sends my way have been very few, and of those that have asked questions one has stayed with the true Gospel. The others have gone right back to Babylon and rejected the truth. It's discouraging, but its going to happen time and time again.
Kat:
Hi Kevin,
None of us know if we are of the Elect. We can know we are chosen, if our eyes are opened and we begin to see these truths. But we must be faithful to the end. Only at the actual election that takes place at the first resurrection do those know for sure they made it. There will be so very few, to be in the race at all is a great blessing I guess.
What I'm trying to say is you may indeed be the means by which some of your family has their eyes opened, but it does you no good to 'plan' how YOU will go about being His instrument. If and when it happens it will probably happen in a way you least expect it to.
It is a great joy to see a loved ones eyes opened, but this will happen for the majority in the LOF. We look on this as a terrible fate, but it's God's perfect plan. I really think it will only be a terrible experience for those with terrible sins. But it will be a difficult thing for anybody to endure, just as the struggles of the chosen is now.
I guess I look at it as God will do His work and I can be ready to serve or not, but I can not plan the course He takes.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
lilitalienboi16:
--- Quote from: legoman on September 03, 2008, 01:25:57 PM ---Hi Kat,
I don't think I am as confused as you think I am :) at least I hope not...
First of all, I don't even know if I am one of the elect! I mean, I have had these truths revealed to me, but don't know if I can humble and purge myself enough to be able to enter the Kingdom of God. Now the way I wrote that sentence it looks like there is free will in there, but when I say "I can humble" and I can "purge" I really mean - is it God will's for me? Or is it not. I don't think anyone knows for sure if they are part of the elect.
--- Quote ---We need not worry or try to think of a way to best approach them with the truth.
--- End quote ---
Here is how I see it. I 100% agree with you that God's elect are predetermined. Either my family will be called or they won't be called. I know I can't change that. God is 100% sovereign. I completely understand that. We cannot affect his will.
However, I don't know the future. Will my parents be called or not? I don't know - only God knows. Therefore I must try. How do I know that I won't be the instrument that reveals the truth to my parents? That could be God's plan to bring my parents into the elect. If I worry and plan about how to approach them, then it must have been God's will that I worry and plan how to approach them. Because we can only do God's will. Just like when Pharoah hardened his heart, it was God's will that Pharoah harden his heart.
Here are the possible outcomes:
1. I show the truth to my parents, discuss with them, show them Ray's papers etc. The light bulb goes on for them. Yay! It was God's will and my parents were predestined to know thow the truth!
2. I show the truth to my parents, discuss, etc. The light bulb doesn't go on. Oh well, I guess it wasn't predestined for them, but I was still predestined to reveal the truth to them. Yay! Its all part of God's will!
3. I don't reveal the truth to my parents for some reason (maybe I chicken out, maybe we don't get a chance to discuss it for whatever reason). So my parents never here the truth. Guess they weren't predestined to know the truth, and I wasn't predestined to talk to them about it. Yay! Its all part of God's will!
4. I don't reveal the truth etc. But somehow my parents have the truth revealed to them. Again I wasn't predestined to reveal the truth to them, but they were predestined to learn it! Yay again! It's God's will.
The tricky part is I don't know which outcome will happen, only God knows. However the common thing is, no matter which outcome actually happens, it must have been God's will, because that is the outcome that happened.
So I might as well try to reveal the truth to them. If it doesn't happen, it wasn't meant to be (it wasn't God's will).
I hope this makes sense to you. And its why I still believe its valid to share the truth with others. Its not that I'm trying to change God's sovereign plan. That is impossible. But you, me, Ray (obviously), and everyone is a part of God's plan. If you don't feel the need to worry about sharing these truths, then it must have been God's will for you not to feel the need to worry about sharing these truths. Everything we do is part of God's plan, right?
Cheers,
Kevin
--- End quote ---
1 Peter 3:15 "But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:"
Matthew 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Shoving it down someone's throat is a sure way to get them to look the otherway.
Perhaps we should take the Lord's advice on this and simply sanctify God in our hearts and when the time comes HE will bring someone to us, so that they may ask us the reason for our hope. THEN we will truly know, we are ready and equiped to give them the answer the Lord wants them to hear.
God bless,
Alex
legoman:
Ok I get what you are all saying.
Don't worry I won't be shoving this down anyone's throats, least of all my parents. I hope I didn't give that impression, that is not what I am talking about here. I'm just talking about what the best way is to bring up this subject with my parents. I want to bring it up in a way that won't cause them to reject what I'm saying in less than 30 seconds.
Kat, when I say I "plan" to talk to my parents about this, I fully realize it may not go according to that plan, or it may not happen it all. To clarify,I'm planning on sharing the truth with them, but not planning on opening their eyes. LOL That gives me an image of me holding their eyelids open with toothpicks while they start at a giant screen of Ray's teachings... :) but even that wouldn't work...
I also fully realize it may not be God's plan for them to know ever.
Perhaps I need to share a bit of my situation. My parents live about 2000 miles from me, so I don't see them that often, and the phone calls don't usually have much deep conversation. But I would like to bring the topic up at some point, so I'm trying to figure out the best time and words to use.
We will be flying down at thanksgiving for a few days, so I may get a chance to talk about it then. But it could be awkward if we end up having a big fight on thanksgiving and then leaving. So that is my dilema. Maybe I will email them or phone them about it first. Or maybe I will wait for Christmas. Or maybe it will never happen. So I can see what you mean about not worrying about it too much - if it doesn't happen, then it doesn't happen.
From my perspective I have some big decisions coming up. I know we don't have free will, but I still have to make these decisions. Do I risk telling them and possibly spoiling our visit (given that we only see them about 3 times a year). Or maybe if I do tell them they will understand just as quickly as I did and it will be great to have family to talk to about this! See my dilema? I'm sure everyone here must have had similar thoughts. I don't want to create a rift in the family if possible.
Based on what everyone has said here I am preparing myself for them not to believe, but I can hope and pray. Any encouragment you can give would be helpful.
Cheers,
Legoman
Dave in Tenn:
That's my faith concerning this, Alex. Thanks. :)
My situation isn't a lot different. I live much closer than 2000 miles, but I don't see them very often and don't want to 'disrupt' the few times we can be together.
My mother's brithday was the middle of last month. All I had shared with any of them was that my spiritual life had been renewed. I shared that with my older sister in an email after she asked 'how are you doing?' I said I was doing 'lopsided'...my natural life was a mess, but I'd never been so alive in my Spiritual life. She was pleased, but didn't ask me any more.
I don't know if she 'informed' my mother or younger sister...maybe yes, maybe no. But I went up to celebrate our mother's birthday. It was the first time in a long time I have felt exceeding joy in all their company. I am already the black sheep (cultural, tastes, politics, you name it) and have been out of church for a long time.
We really had a wonderful time, and I was so happy to be able to feel so much love for them. Conversation was natural and every so often, I had an oppurtunity to drop in a little 'thing'. Sometimes it was picked up on, but quietly dropped, sometimes it wasn't picked up on at all. I didn't press it. I know that they saw a change in me. I wasn't sullen, depressed, or cynical. I was happy.
That was enough for then. Maybe there will be more later, and if I have to take some lumps, then I'm willing to do it. But without that 'change' in me, it would have been pointless to bring up more or argue. Indeed, if there hadn't been a change in me, I would not be a believer at all!
I guess what I'm saying is, if you're not going to plan, then don't plan. Let what happens happen. Be guided by Love and the Spirit of Christ. If asked, answer. If confronted with 'preaching', then share. All I'd PLAN on is going and having a good time.
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