> General Discussions
How successful have you been at opening people's eyes?
gmik:
Unfortunately this has been a sobering thread, but oh so true.
It is God ONLY who can/will open any eyes. Thanks be to God for dragging us to himself! Nothing I did to deserve it for sure. For some reason, He is not dragging so many of our loved ones with us. Nothing they did or didn't. He is the potter and we the clay.
I have had the same or similar experiences w/ all of the above posts!! Now, I almost guard my truth as precious and they really better want to know before I get into it! Rays paper on reaching the lost really touched me and freed me of guilt. No, I don't need to preach to anyone. I need to learn this truth first and apply it in my life. Thats job 1 for me right now.
I don't know how you would search it but this forum is filled w/ posts about all our experiences and trials and victories.
As for me, Legoman, my son got me onto Ray's website, and then I basically read most of his stuff to my husband who got excited like me about it. My other two kids--nope, nada, can't even discuss or debate it anymore!
Many are called but few are chosen.
hillsbororiver:
Same experience here! ;)
Gena mentioned Ray's article that really deals with this matter, and it is truly a burden lifter, I will paste a couple parts of it here;
GOD PREDETERMINES WHO GETS SAVED AND WHEN
"Now we are aware that God [Who? GOD. Men—ourselves? NO—GOD] is working all together for the good of those who are loving God who are called according to the purpose that, whom He foreknew, He designates beforehand, also, to be conformed to the image of His Son for Him to be Firstborn among many brethren. Now whom He designates beforehand, these He calls also, and whom He calls, these He justifies also; now whom He justifies, these He glorifies also" (Rom. 8:28-30, Concordant Literal New Testament).
It is ALL OF GOD. It is not wrong to tell others of your knowledge of God and His Word. It is not, however, your responsibility to "get people saved." Only God can do that.
It is GOD who does the calling:
"For ye see your calling brethren how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called. But God has chosen [Who? ‘GOD’] the weak things of this world to confound the things which are mighty…" (I Cor. 1:26-27).
It is GOD who does the dragging:
"No man can come to me, except the Father which has sent Me, draw him [Gk: ‘drag him’]…" (John 6:44).
It is CHRIST Who chooses from those His Father dragged:
"Ye have not chosen Me, but I HAVE CHOSEN YOU…" (John 15:16).
Eventually this will include all mankind:
"And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me" (John 12:32).
And all will respond to God’s judgments and chastisements:
"That at the name of Jesus EVERY knee should bow, of those in heaven, and those in earth, and those under the earth; And that EVERY tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father" (Phil. 2:10-11—See also Isa. 26:9b).
And let’s not forget:
"…no man CAN say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Spirit" (I Cor. 12:3b).
Which is totally contrary to the horrible teachings of such men as John Hagee and Herbert W. Armstrong on this subject. Herbert Armstrong said: "Yes, every knee will bow, and if they don’t GOD WILL BREAK THEIR KNEES." Oh the unscriptural foolishness of carnal—minded men.
But do orthodox Christians believe that these Scriptures mean what they say? Of course not, and that is why they quote Phil. 2:12 "…work out your own salvation with fear and trembling," thinking that this takes Sovereignty away from God and places it back with man and his fabled "free will." Not so. They forget to read the next verse which tells us why we are to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling:
"For [‘for’ means ‘because’] it is GOD [Who? Man? NO! ‘GOD’] which works in you both TO WILL AND TO DO of His good pleasure" (Phil. 2:13).
LIGHT AND SALT DON’T ARGUE OR MAKE NOISE
"Ye are the salt of the earth… Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid… Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father which is in heaven" (Matt. 5:1,14,16).
Salt does not make any noise, and light does not argue Scriptures. Neither salt nor light makes any sound whatsoever. Maybe there is a lesson in there.
Too many people learn a few truths of God and think that they are ready to take on the world. They usually start by trying to embarrass their Pastor with their new-gained knowledge. Usually they fall flat on their face on the very first try. It’s all about motivation. If your motivation is carnal, God will not back you. Yes, I know, all of you are saying: "But my motivation is to show them God’s truths." Yes, sure, I understand, but THEY DON’T WANT TO HEAR GOD’S TRUTHS, and you already know this, so what is your point? Leave them alone and let them taste your salt and see your light and admire your good works, and perchance they will even praise God for your new-found humility,
You will never argue anyone into accepting the truths of God’s Word. As salesmen are often taught: "You might win the argument, but loose the sale," so don’t argue. And this: "He who is persuaded against his will; is of the same opinion still."
I receive a lot of emails from people who beg me to come to their rescue because they are about to have a second session with their pastor or friend, but have failed miserably on the first go-round. Now they want me to give them the ammunition they need to do a slam-dunk on their second attempt to embarrass their pastor or friend. Give it up—that attitude is wrong. Such a carnal exhibition of prideful flesh is akin to someone looking for a street fight merely because he has just acquired a black belt in karate.
Read it all here;
http://bible-truths.com/souls.htm
Peace,
Joe
Jackie Lee:
I am still fairly new to the truths God has revealed to me through Ray's teachings.
Most of people I have talked to get absolutely frantic when I say there is no freewill, I am still struggling with *No Freewill* and second guessing myself.
I absolutely know there isn't freewill but I struggle.
Then there is Hell funny thing most people like the idea of hell, it seems to be what keeps them going.
Most christians don't want to believe their love ones are dead until resurrection either.
I always get the quote from Paul absent from the body present with the Lord.
So no I haven't had any sucess at all and rarely talk about it unless asked directly.
I feel it is better to be mum on the subject, unless I know it is time to speak.
Triton:
Hello Legoman,
I can so totally relate to what you are saying.
May I just add that I've at some point found myself between a rock and a hard place. Well, maybe still sometimes, or so it seems.
I've also read 'bibleforums' and found them lacking in truth, and especially lacking in honesty. Sadly. But I understand that it is God's will.
It is difficult to accept though, because it is so much the opposite from what we have been told since birth (free will)
I've come to understand the truth that God is actually God and that He does have a plan of bringing all and everything to Him, but each
one at his appointed time. The fact that I have not one person seeing it the way we see it here on the net, in my life where I live and
work, has at times made me 'doubt' the truth. And I've at times thought of going back and following orthodox church basically because
of the huge amount of people who doesn't see it the way we do.
But God hasn't led me back. He has kept taking me farther away from orthodox Christianity. He has used, what I believe, the Benny
Hinns and Todd Bentleys to show me the untruths of orthodox Christianity. How people can believe these false teachers and defend
them, when they are clearly saying things that are the opposite of the Bible, is beyond my understanding. But this just proves that we
don't have free will and that only God can open our eyes, and evidently that God doesn't open everyone's eyes until He decides to.
The size of orthodox Christianity is overwhelming. But, so was Goliath. And only David stood up against him. David's own people didn't.
They had not the faith. And we here know where faith comes from.
And just one more thing. Especially being married, with a spouse who still is not seeing the truths, makes it all just so much harder. I'm
sure that in itself is a test given to us from God. We should love our wives and our husbands. It's God's decision when and how He will
show them the truths. We can help, but if it's not His time for them, or any other friend, it just ain't gonna happen.
Be strong
Paul
lilitalienboi16:
Pretty unsuccsesful as it is God who does all the opening. I know Jesus didn't convert a single person while He was alive. I guess that mean's He didn't open a single person's eyes up to God's Truths while He was alive? If it does, than my chances are pretty slim, actualy non existant :P
God bless,
Alex
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