> General Discussions
Difficult Passages
Kat:
Hi Jason,
One way I try to look at death that must come to all in this world, sometimes the way it happens is terrible, but it's part of the "experience of evil" (Ecc 1:13) that we all must go through, as we all will die. So all those people died... would it have been better for them to continue in their pagan ways in this world? God did give them physical life and they will be in the resurrection of the dead and be brought to salvation. That is ultimately what it's all about, not having long years in this world.
Also as Joe says those things that happened in the OT are shadows of spiritual things. As we are to be growing in knowledge and becoming more spiritual minded, but when you began to focus to much on physical/temporary things what happens?
Mat 14:28 And Peter answered Him and said, LORD, if it is You, tell me to come to You on the water.
v. 29 And He said, Come. And when Peter had come down out of the boat, he walked on the water to go to Jesus.
v. 30 But seeing that the wind was strong, he was afraid. And beginning to sink, he cried, saying, Lord, save me!
v. 31 And immediately Jesus stretched out His hand and caught him; and said to him, Little-faith! Why did you doubt?
mercy, peace and love
Kat
rjsurfs:
--- Quote from: Sozo on September 04, 2008, 08:35:18 PM ---
This would have been murder, kidnapping and rape. The whole scenario could possibly even be labeled as genocide.
--- End quote ---
Hi Sozo,
I'm trying to understand and help you understand... why is this instance of murder, kidnapping, and rape any different to you than any other instance of murder, kidnapping, and rape that has ever taken place in God's world... where he is all in all?
Bobby
Beloved:
I agree with Joe Kat and Flagron you have to read these scriptures spiritually, they were real events recorded because of significant truths in them.
To understand Num 31 you also have to go back to Num 25 to see the spiriual crime.
It is were Phineus took a javelin and killed a couple : Simeon (one who obey God) and the woman Corbi (liar), she was one of the women in this culture that were doing this and they were corrupting the covenant. There was a major plague laid on Israel.
Phineus (the high priest) in his zeal was able to divert the wrath of God and he was commended and approved by God because he represents the future priests who will lead the church through the LOF and also divert a plague.
The earth is corrupt and does this violence all the time in real life , but in the heavenly, those who should die, will be shown mercy but their actions will be judged and they will be made righteous.
The medianits were under grace (five ) but now the sons of their king were killed as well as Balam the son of Beor.
Midian means Judgement, Balaam the ancient of the people; the destruction of the people Beor the burning. The five sons names mean Evimeans I unjust Rekem means friendship Zur rmeans rock, Hur (name of 4 Israelites (one husband to Mirium) and one Midianite, Hur means ( liberty, whiteness whole) and Reba means fourth (symbolic of earthy) Thes names are all auspicious.
God is Spirit and his actions are too.
Anyway this is the way I see this passage
beloved
Sozo:
--- Quote from: Bobby in TN on September 05, 2008, 07:34:30 AM ---
Hi Sozo,
I'm trying to understand and help you understand... why is this instance of murder, kidnapping, and rape any different to you than any other instance of murder, kidnapping, and rape that has ever taken place in God's world... where he is all in all?
Bobby
--- End quote ---
Good question Bobby. I think this one is different as are a few others such as the battle of Jericho for the following reasons: Before these things took place, God had not to long ago given his people commandments that they should not murder, steal, commit adultery, etc. And then just a few years later, these passages such as the battle of Jericho found in Joshua say that God commanded them to go in and kill every thing that breathed.
Now fast forward a few thousand years to today. Why couldn't someone justify their religious genocide by saying God told them to do it? Wouldn't we all cry out that they are doing wrong and show them God's law that it is wrong to do these atrocities and show them where Jesus said to love your neighbor? Would they then be wrong by showing us these passages as justification for their actions?
Don't misunderstand me. I completely understand that God has created evil and uses it for a purpose. I understand what Kat has said in her post above. I understand that we all experience evil and that we all die. So let me get to the point and tell you the main thoughts I am having on all of this.
Here they are:
Are these stories actual historical events that took place?
If no and they are parables, how can we show that they are parables.
If yes, did God actually command his people to do this or is it possible that they did it and justified there actions by saying God told them to do it?
If God commanded it then how do we reconcile this with his previous commands?
If they used God to justify this, then how can the original scriptures be infallible?
Am I thinking too much? Am I thinking from a completely carnal point of view?
Sozo:
Several of you have said that this is a parable or that we need to understand it from a spiritual POV.
--- Quote from: hillsbororiver on September 05, 2008, 06:27:35 AM ---We must not look at the OT as merely some history of ancient days, in fact it is at least as much a prophecy/shadow/type of what is to come in a spiritual sense, this very well may be speaking in physical terms the spiritual slaying that transpires in the LOF.
..........
P.S. Remember the entire bible is a parable. ;)
--- End quote ---
--- Quote from: Kat on September 05, 2008, 07:33:23 AM ---Also as Joe says those things that happened in the OT are shadows of spiritual things. As we are to be growing in knowledge and becoming more spiritual minded......
--- End quote ---
--- Quote from: Falconn003 on September 05, 2008, 08:17:44 AM ---FACT ::It is a parable...... thinking leterally of rape, murder,,, ect., in any sense in the Gosple, will/can only bring out the sadistic nature of the BEAST.
--- End quote ---
Is the beast in me showing his ugly head by questioning this?
--- Quote from: Beloved on September 05, 2008, 08:48:57 AM ---I agree with Joe Kat and Flagron you have to read these scriptures spiritually, they were real events recorded because of significant truths in them.
--- End quote ---
I understand that we must have a spiritual understanding. If not, we will never understand the message. However, the questions that I keep having are the ones I posted in my reply above.
--- Quote from: Sozo on September 05, 2008, 09:02:42 AM ---Are these stories actual historical events that took place?
If no and they are parables (as some of you have suggested), how can we show that they are parables.
If yes, did God actually command his people to do this or is it possible that they did it and justified there actions by saying God told them to do it?
If God commanded it then how do we reconcile this with his previous commands?
If they used God to justify this, then how can the original scriptures be infallible?
--- End quote ---
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