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John 3:13
Kat:
Hi Eileen,
Here is an email that might help explain this.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,5112.msg40285.html#msg40285 ---
There is nothing about the Truth or God's Word that should make us sad. When people die, they are dead. This is not a terrible thing. God likens death to sleep in many many Scriptures. The only hope of the dead is a resurrection from the dead (a doctrine that has no value or importance in the Church any longer). Read my short paper: "An Encouraging Word About Death" on my home page.
There is no consciousness in death, hence no one will ever experience being dead. Many will experience the act of dying (unless one is killed instantly or dies in one's sleep), but once we are dead we experience and know nothing (Ecc. 9:5). In resurrection, God in effect, awakens us out of our sleep of death (Psalm 13:3). Our hope is not in heaven, but in resurrection (I Cor. 15 whole chapter).
Now John 14:2--"In my Father's house are many mansions [Greek, abodes--same word translated abode in verse 23] : if it were not so, I would have told you, I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will COME AGAIN, and receive you unto Myself; that where I am [ON THIS EARTH, not heaven], THERE ye may be also...Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and COME AGAIN UNTO YOU..." (Also verse 28). What will happen to all the Believing Saints who have died over the centuries? When and where will they receive the "abodes in the Father's House?" They will live and reign as kings and priests with Jesus at resurrection (Rev. 20:4). "And has made us unto our God kings and priests: and WE SHALL REIGN ON THE EARTH" (Rev. 5:10). Our reward, our special office or abode in God's Kingdom is to SAVE THE REST OF HUMANITY.
God be with you,
Ray
EKnight:
Ha ha Roger, you are right. She already gave me that scripture "Today you will be with me in paradise". I never did get to explain it to her because I don't want to be be drawn into a debate I am not knowledgeable enough to win. I did direct her here and asked her to compare her beliefs with those stated here but I am sure she questioned her pastor about it and he persuaded her otherwise. She never discussed it with me. Oh well, as they say, you can lead a horse to water.......
Eileen
WhoAmI:
I can remember when I was young and was in a Sunday school class. They were trying to tell us that where you go (heaven or hell ) depends on what happens on your last breath. So I said are you telling me a person can live all their life doing right and trying to serve God but lets say a day or two before they die they happen to slip in their walk and since they die in their sins they are now doomed to eternal hell. They said yes.
I then said so if you have a terrible sinner who kills, steal etc. and he is able to whisper "save me Jesus" with his last breath he gets a free ticket to heaven? They said yes.
It is complete madness what they teach!
Jeff
Falgn0n:
In the "pentecostal/charismatic" church that I used to be a part of, we used to teach that there are TWO judgements: The Great White Throne Judgement, which is a judgement of the unbelieving - all those in this judgement get "hell". And then there's the "Judgement Seat of Christ" where all the believers are judged "ACCORDING TO THEIR WORKS" where they get various rewards (the fire shall test the quality of each man's work, etc...)
There was also the whole teaching about how OT saints were kept in the "upper regions" of hell, known as "paradise" (Ref: the thief that Jesus said would be in "paradise") or "Abraham's Bosom" (Ref: the Lazarus parable: "Abraham's Bosom"), pending the death & resurrection of Jesus:
Eph 4:8-10 (captives freed / Jesus descended to free captives from Hell)
And for YEARS it all made perfect sense to me
???
But anyway...
Samson:
Eileen,
This might help towards your discussion in regards to your Sister. Acts. 2:34, 35 " Actually David did not ascend to the Heavens, but he himself says, The Lord said to my lord: Sit at my right hand, until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet. " It shows that at least in this point in time, David couldn't be in Heaven, still only Jesus. You might use the example and passage regarding the Resurrection of Jesus close friend Lazarus( John. 11:1-25 ). Why! You might ask, because LAZURUS WAS DEAD IN THE TOMB FOR THREE DAYS, UPON JESUS RAISING HIM FROM THE DEAD, WHERE WAS HE, SURELY THE NOMINAL CHURCHES WOULDN'T SAY HE WAS IN HELL PUNISHMENT, THEY ADMIT HE WAS A GOOD MAN AND FRIENDS WITH JESUS; IF HE WENT TO HEAVEN WHILE DEAD IN THAT TOMB, HE DIDN'T MENTION ANYTHING ABOUT IT. ALSO IF HE HAD GONE TO THE SPIRITUAL REALM OF HEAVEN DURING THOSE THREE DAYS, HE MIGHT HAVE BEEN UPSET WITH JESUS FOR BRINGING HIM BACK TO THIS TERRIBLE WORLD THROUGH RESURRECTION( A TEMPORARY ONE AT THAT). ;D
When reading that passage in John mentioned above, Jesus tells Martha that Lazarus is asleep, further explaining to her that Lazarus has died. Jesus resurrected Lazarus, Jairus Daughter, the widow of Nains Son and there's no mention of them being anywhere else when awoken by Jesus.
If your Sister is just interested in debating in general and not sincerely searching for answers, of what value would it be to continue discussing this with her. That's a question only you can answer.
Hope this helps Eileen, if not, my mistake.
Kind Regards, Samson.
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