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Forces of the cross
OBrenda:
--- Quote from: musicman on September 24, 2008, 06:35:57 PM ---I look at it like this:
If I wear a hat displaying my favorite team, I am not worshipping the hat or the team. I am just showing everybody else who my favorite team is.
When one wears a cross, they aren't neccessarily worshipping the cross or the person it is supposed to represent. It is only telling everybody else which "god" you believe in.
The reason I used a lower case g for god, is because wearing a cross does not tell anybody which Jesus you believe in. Most cross wearing individuals believe in the god of babylon, or the failure.
So, the cross represents a number of different gods. The true God requires no physical symbol.
--- End quote ---
Bravo Music Man ;D
Dave, I enjoyed your response to Ricky, like you say it was above my pay grade!
Ricky:
Hi Everyone, Thankyou all so much for your replies, I should say something now cos I started this mess. Dave, thankyou you almost got to maybe what I should have posted, cos this has nothing to do with wearing a cross, or idol worship, what it is made of or where it comes from, but it does have something to do with what it means, but not entirely. I read somewhere in Rays papers, and please correct me if I am wrong, Ray says that Satan is the head of the church, it is his throne. This to me means, ALL churches everywhere. If Satan is sitting on the throne in any church, what would or could be sitting next to him. A CROSS. Some christian Church's have them, all catholic Churches have 100`s of them, other religions even use them. Even some bibles have a cross on them. Go to any cemetery's and count 100`s of them. And inst that what Satan is suppose to do, kill or cause death to people. What was suppose to come out of this post was, Who is the God of the Cross. Al Queda said on cnn, that they plan on doing more and bigger attacks in the future on the Forces of the Cross, and its people behind it. If Satan is the head of the church and the cross is associated with the church would that not make it so that Al Queda believes the cross belongs to Satan. I believe it does it does not belong to our Father God, or Lord Jesus or the Bible. I hope I have explained it a little better this time for everyone. Dave in Tenn looking forward to reading anything you may have to say on this. Stevernator, you were on it as well. Would any Mods like to have a go with this one. Would be nice. ??? Bless you all Ricky
Dave in Tenn:
Ricky, you know what the cross is. Jesus died on the cross. You know why He did that. I don't give much of a rat's tuckus at present whether it was a pole or a cross-shape or what shape it took. Jesus didn't die a natural death. He wasn't stoned by a mob. He wasn't struck by lightening. He wasn't cast off a cliff. He was crucified. The Christian cross is a symbol of that.
Baptism and communion are symbols of Christ's death and resurrection too. The churches raise these symbols as high or higher than the Christ when they require people to accept the symbol in order to have a relationship with the One who the symbols point to. A symbol can't be greater than that which it symbolizes.
As for Al Qaeda's statement...consider the source. Their Theology is more twisted than the churches! Don't take bible lessons from Osama Bin Laden.
OBrenda:
Hey Ricky,
Please forgive us if a post runs a little astray sometimes. They usually do take on a life of their own. I try to think of it as God's way of blessing everyone. I'm glad you spoke up to be heard. There is another saying that goes along with what Dave shared.....The finger pointing at the moon is not the moon.
I don't know much of anything about what they believe about the "God of the Cross" I know they hate the Trinity belief of more than one God. We reject that also. So where does that place everybody in the big picture...I don't know. What I do know is that it is in all God's will that there is this great Delusion, and each side believes they have the truth. Very Humbling indeed.
Peace,
Brenda
Kat:
The church does hold up a cross as being the symbol of Christ and a Christain certainly uses a cross to represent their religion. Indeed I believe it is the main symbol they use all over the place and it is closely related to Christaindom. What's interesting too is I don't believe that Islam use the cross at all, so they use the 'cross' of Christaindom to identify them and focus their attention on.
But the reality is I don't think that the 'cross' really has anything to do concerning Christ. Here is a section from the LOF no. 8 that has a really good spiritual understanding concerning Christ and the cross.
http://bible-truths.com/lake8.html ------------------------
THE CHURCH OF EPHESUS
"To him that overcomes will I give to eat of the tree of life" (Rev. 2:7).
That’s CHRIST.
"Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection and [I am] the LIFE� (John 11:25).
The KJV translates "tree" in this verse from the Greek word xulon. Here is Strong’s definition of xulon: "timber (for fuel or material); by impl. a stick, club or tree or wooden art. or substance … xulon, wood, a piece of wood, anything made of wood." The word "tree" does fit what is spoken of in this verse, but when we come to Rev. 22:2, "tree of life" does not seem to fit as well.
"In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life…" (Rev. 22:2).
How do we have one tree of life on BOTH sides of the river?
One translation translates both of these verses as "wood of life." Another has, "log of life." Interestingly, one translation has this footnote, Wood is the primary significance of zulon, and may here denote, as in Rev. xxii, an aggregation of dendra, or trees, commonly called a wood, or forest; a xulon of life, occupying a place on both sides of the river."
What a marvelous word picture God has presented to us in these words. Jesus Christ is first and foremost, "The" [singular] Tree of Life. This is the Tree of Life spoken of in the Garden of Eden. That tree grew out of the earth, just as Jesus (the source of life—from His Father) came in the flesh (the "earth") to bring life (immortality—deathlessness, eternal life) to all humanity. Interestingly, the first time xulon is used in Scripture is where Jesus said,
"For if they do these things in a green [living] tree [Gk: xulon—wood] what shall be done in the dry [dead wood]?" (Luke 23:31).
Jesus Christ is the "green living tree." Jesus met His death by being crucified. The "cross" of Christendom was really a post, pole, or upright stake that is fastened or planted in the ground manually—it did not grow from that spot. It is not a living xulon or wood or tree. Jesus died on a DEAD wood or dead tree.
But Jesus is now raised from the dead and is the Live Tree, the Tree of LIFE. We get a "taste" of this life when God gives us of His Holy Spirit. But we receive only the "ernest" or down payment in this life:
"…you were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, which is the ernest of our inheritance UNTIL [at a later date] the redemption of the purchased possession…" (Eph. 1:13b-14).
At the resurrection we will be changed:
"Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it does not yet appear what we shall be: for we know that, when He shall appear, we shall be LIKE HIM, for we shall see Him as He is" (I John 3:2-3).
Jesus also said this:
"As Thou [the Father] has given Him [Jesus] power over all flesh, that He should give eternal life [eonian life, which for the believer includes immortality] to as many as Thou has given Him" (John 17:2).
And so, as Jesus has life in Himself, He will give us that same life. And just as Jesus is the Singlular "Wood [tree] of life," we too will become the Plural "Wood of Life" spoken of in Rev. 22:2. Remember a "wood" is a gathering of trees as in "woods" or "forest." Where do we read of such a gathering of "living trees?"
"And He showed me a pure river of water of life [this is God’s life giving spirit] clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God [the Father has life] and of the Lamb [the Father gives life to Jesus to give to as many as God has given Him]. In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river [of life], was there the tree [xulon, wood, or woods or forest] of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month; and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations" (Rev 22:1-2).
Jesus is the source of all life because His Father gave Him life to disseminate to others.
"For as the Father has life in Himself, so has He given to the son to have LIFE IN HIMSELF" (John 5:26).
So in Revelation 22 we see the river of life flowing from God and Christ, through the middle of the forest of trees of life (that’s US), and we in return "heal the nations" just as Obadiah prophesied of the coming of "saviours" (plural) to Mt. Zion (God’s headquarters of government throne) to judge the nations.
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Just thought this would be a good addition to this thread.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
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