> General Discussions
Where Did Christ Ascend?
chrissiela:
I went back and looked up all of those verses trying to restudy this and I could find no word from which 'again' was translated and not all translations have the word "again" in them. :shock: Big surprise, right?? :lol: :lol:
Could be that the word was just 'added' in tranlsation for some reason??
But then I don't have anything but e-sword to go by... certainly not the original manuscripts or even anything close.... not that I would know what to DO with them if I had them (as far as being able to READ them). :roll:
Will keep looking, but not finding much. :o
Chrissie
lilitalienboi16:
--- Quote from: rocky ---
--- Quote from: Daniel ---
Rev 20:5 But THE REST of THE DEAD lived not AGAIN UNTIL "the thousand years" were FINISHED. This is the first resurrection.
Daniel
--- End quote ---
This verse confuses me, it makes it sound as the first resurrection is not until after the 1000 years, and
the rest of the dead who then will live= the first resurrection.
Daniel, I'm probably missing entirely you point, sorry. Wish I could shed the scales off my eyes faster and at my own will.
--- End quote ---
Perhaps i can try my shot at this.
What it is saying i believe is like this, in English lamence terms.
BUT THE REST OF THE DEAD DIDN'T LIVE UNTIL THE AFTER THE THOUSAND YEAR REIGN, WHICH IS THE FIRST RESSURECTION[ The thousand year reign].
Does that make sence? I tried heh.
God bless,
Alex
Daniel:
Alex this has been interesting, I'm looking into just that. I have tons of questions I never asked. Like why is it called a thousand years? Is a thousand years a thousand years or as Peter says it could be AS a DAY. But is that day a literal day? OR a spiritual day(!) which encompasses more in it to be understood? Whats "Finished" How does Paul use the word "reign" what is it to reign with Him? Things like that, taking more then a casual glance but a meditative one on these things.
I'm trying to see Jesus Christ, the the thousand years and what is finished in the thousand years (from my above post) and how Paul mentions the word "to reign" and what that means. We know its a revelation of Jesus Christ we are waiting for. Heres some verses too. He came ONCE to bear sin, once and FOR ALL, He comes a SECOND TIME unto those who look for Him, but we LOOK AT what is NOT seen NOT AT what is seen which is exactly WHY the world cannot receive Him "because it SEETH Him NOT".
Within one of the "thousand years" which can be seen is as "a day" something "is finished". A thousand years are "finished" On the Cross Jesus says
Jon 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished[/u]: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.
In relation to Jesus Christ He who was came ONCE for one purpose to bear our sins
Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday[/u], and to day, and for ever.
Yet in the Cross Jesus says this too
Luke 23:43 To day shalt thou be with me[/u] in paradise. Heb 3:7, 4:7,& 3:13 while it is called To day[/u]... The day is Called To day for a reason, and how does this relate to anything even yesterday? Or a thousand years? Reign with Hm[/u]
Psalm 90:40 For a thousand years[/b] in thy sight are but as yesterday WHEN it is PAST, AND as a WATCH in the NIGHT.
He who WAS (yesterday), IS (To day) and Will be
Not seeing this as a dated thing but a spiritual truth dawning in us, something IS yesterday WHEN it IS PAST and also compared to a WATCH (Paul says "watch") and that IN THE NIGHT . In Genesis the DARKNESS is CALLED NIGHT
Okay look here, See it??
1 John 2:8 Again, a new commandment I write unto you, WHICH THING IS TRUE IN HIM and IN YOU: THE DARNESS "IS PAST"[/u], and the true light NOW SHINETH.[/b]
A Spiritual DAY dawning IN YOU, the darkness PAST, something occurred in them they were aware of, found in the word "darkness" because it is NOW PAST (keep reading John) because we were "SOMETIMES" in darkness but something happened they became light in the Lord. In the city there is NO NIGHT "There" as there is No darkness IN HIM.
I need to sit with this, theres connections indeed and yet spiritually apprehended in ourselves
Daniel
chrissiela:
--- Quote from: Daniel ---Alex this has been interesting, I'm looking into just that. I have tons of questions I never asked. Like why is it called a thousand years? Is a thousand years a thousand years or as Peter says it could be AS a DAY. But is that day a literal day? OR a spiritual day(!) which encompasses more in it to be understood? Whats "Finished" How does Paul use the word "reign" what is it to reign with Him? Things like that, taking more then a casual glance but a meditative one on these things.
I'm trying to see Jesus Christ, the the thousand years and what is finished in the thousand years (from my above post) and how Paul mentions the word "to reign" and what that means. We know its a revelation of Jesus Christ we are waiting for. Heres some verses too. He came ONCE to bear sin, once and FOR ALL, He comes a SECOND TIME unto those who look for Him, but we LOOK AT what is NOT seen NOT AT what is seen which is exactly WHY the world cannot receive Him "because it SEETH Him NOT".
Within one of the "thousand years" which can be seen is as "a day" something "is finished". A thousand years are "finished" On the Cross Jesus says
Jon 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished[/u]: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.
In relation to Jesus Christ He who was came ONCE for one purpose to bear our sins
Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday[/u], and to day, and for ever.
Yet in the Cross Jesus says this too
Luke 23:43 To day shalt thou be with me[/u] in paradise. Heb 3:7, 4:7,& 3:13 while it is called To day[/u]... The day is Called To day for a reason, and how does this relate to anything even yesterday? Or a thousand years? Reign with Hm[/u]
Psalm 90:40 For a thousand years[/b] in thy sight are but as yesterday WHEN it is PAST, AND as a WATCH in the NIGHT.
He who WAS (yesterday), IS (To day) and Will be
Not seeing this as a dated thing but a spiritual truth dawning in us, something IS yesterday WHEN it IS PAST and also compared to a WATCH (Paul says "watch") and that IN THE NIGHT . In Genesis the DARKNESS is CALLED NIGHT
Okay look here, See it??
1 John 2:8 Again, a new commandment I write unto you, WHICH THING IS TRUE IN HIM and IN YOU: THE DARNESS "IS PAST"[/u], and the true light NOW SHINETH.[/b]
A Spiritual DAY dawning IN YOU, the darkness PAST, something occurred in them they were aware of, found in the word "darkness" because it is NOW PAST (keep reading John) because we were "SOMETIMES" in darkness but something happened they became light in the Lord. In the city there is NO NIGHT "There" as there is No darkness IN HIM.
I need to sit with this, theres connections indeed and yet spiritually apprehended in ourselves
Daniel
--- End quote ---
Good thoughts there, Daniel.
Let me pick out just one (though the others are tied to it).
You said:
--- Quote ---Luke 23:43 To day shalt thou be with me[/u] in paradise. Heb 3:7, 4:7,& 3:13 while it is called To day[/u]... The day is Called To day for a reason, and how does this relate to anything even yesterday? Or a thousand years? Reign with Hm[/u]
--- End quote ---
I know that Ray says that the coma is in the wrong place and that it really should be: "Verily I say unto thee today, shalt thou be with me in paradise."
I have to say that on this I do disagree and not because I think that the thief on the cross went to paradise 'that day' when he died... but because I believe that the Lord was telling him a SPIRITUAL TRUTH.
Joh 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.[/list:u]
I think it has nothing to do with the coma. Or, at least for me, the coma does not need to be moved to capture the message of truth that we being spoken.
Luk 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.[/list:u]
The question is.... WHEN IS "TO DAY"? :shock:
And I think you touched on that... I think you see these things similar to the way that I do. At least the way that you piece and tie them together is similar to the way that I do. So when is "today"?
Heb 3:15 While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.[/list:u]
and here:
Heb 4:3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
Heb 4:4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
Heb 4:5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
Heb 4:6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
Heb 4:7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
Heb 4:8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.[/list:u]
You said:
--- Quote ---He who WAS (yesterday), IS (To day) and Will be
--- End quote ---
I see that when Christ IS come it is TODAY in the life of the one who HEARS and hardens not their heart. Then the darkness has passed and has become yesterday, for the true light NOW shineth (as you said).
1Jo 2:8 Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past (yesterday), and the true light now (today) shineth.
1Jo 2:9 He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now.
1Jo 2:10 He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.[/list:u]
So not disagreeing with the overall teaching, just that idea that the comma had to be move to 'get there'. :wink:
Christ was speaking a spiritual truth when he told the thief "Today shalt thou be with me in paradise", not a physical one. We know this to be true because ALL of His words were SPIRIT AND TRUTH.
So I'll just offer that up to anyone who might think that 'you can't get there from here' WITHOUT moving the comma. I know that some - no one here, though - have a problem with the whole 'the coma is in the wrong place' argument. From where I sit, you need not move the coma. You just need to know what is meant by "Today" and understand that it was a SPIRITUAL TRUTH that was being spoken... and look BEYOND the letter. :wink:
Blessings,
Chrissie
Steve Crook:
Well, the original language doesn't have a comma, AT ALL. So, it's not about the comma at all. I know I've seen Ray mention that before, so movement of the comma is not important.
Was Christ DEAD? If he was dead, then how pray tell was the thief in paradise while Christ was dead? Knowing Christ after the flesh wouldn't have been...being with him in paradise to day...?
I am truly asking for any answers anyone has.
I see yester day, to day, and another day.
Was, IS, Will be.
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