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Saints
tinknocker:
Since we're talking about saints chew on this verse for awhile;
Revelation 13:7-8
And he was permitted to wage war against the saints and to conquer them. He was also given authority over every tribe, people, language, and nation. 8 All those who live on the earth will worship him, everyone whose name was not written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slaughtered.
I think saints are the called. The chosen/elect come out of this group.
Blessings
tinknocker
mharrell08:
--- Quote from: tinknocker on October 27, 2008, 12:38:40 AM ---Since we're talking about saints chew on this verse for awhile;
Revelation 13:7-8
And he was permitted to wage war against the saints and to conquer them. He was also given authority over every tribe, people, language, and nation. 8 All those who live on the earth will worship him, everyone whose name was not written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slaughtered.
I think saints are the called. The chosen/elect come out of this group.
Blessings
tinknocker
--- End quote ---
"The saints shall judge the world" 1 Cor 6:2
The called are not going to judge the called. Look at the next verse: whose names are NOT WRITTEN from the foundation of the world in the book of the life of the lamb was slaughtered. Obviously, these are those who did not overcome. Nor does Rev 13:7 interpet itself [2 Pet 1:20]
John 8:31
Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
Notice, IF they continue in His word, they are disciples. Were they disciples this day that Christ spoke it? Of course, that's why He said 'continue'. You can only 'continue' if you have started. Now, did all these same believing Jews continue? Most likely not, as they all chanted 'Crucify him!' [John 19:15].
All this goes for US now. If we 'continue' in the faith, we are his disciples/saints/elect/etc. If we do not, then NO we are not. How can one be a saint if one does not 'continue' in His Word? But who knows who will finish the race?
2 Tim 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
We ALL are saints as we abide in Christ and Christ abides in us...but if we do not 'continue' to abide in Christ then no we will not be His disciples/saints/elect and we will perish/destroyed/lost. That is why Paul could address the congregation as 'saints' because the were on the path even with their carnal flaws. But only God knows who will stay the path as it is HE who ordained the chosen in the first place.
Whew... :D
Marques
Rene:
To all of you who are interested in this topic, now would be a good time to reread and study the following installment from the Lake of Fire series:
LOF series Pt. 13 WHO IS THE BEAST?
Here is a small excerpt from this paper:
WHO ARE THE SAINTS?
If the very elect can’t be deceived, is it possible for saints to be deceived? Yes, there is a difference. One can be a saint long before he becomes the VERY elect. Were the believers in Ephesus called, saints?
"Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, TO THE SAINTS which are in Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus" (Eph. 1:1).
So, Yes, the believers in Ephesus were called saints. But were they perfect? Were they spiritually mature? Were they the VERY elect? No, they weren’t.
René
mharrell08:
Thank you Rene; Ray really makes it simple. :-)
Marques
Samson:
--- Quote from: mharrell08 on October 26, 2008, 07:31:20 PM ---
--- Quote from: ScarletWren on October 26, 2008, 05:49:45 PM ---Wow,
So Paul only literally called them saints, but didn't mean it. Fine, whatever. In love I consider all believers saints, You can call them whatever you want.
sigh
--- End quote ---
Why do you insist on implying negative connotations that have no merit? If there was one comment that deserved this slander, please point it out. This is not that complicated:
You are a 'saint' if God has called and chosen you and you remain faithful to the end. If you are not called and chosen and do not endure to the end, you are not.
No one knows who will be faithful and overcome to the very end. But as they are in the faith now, they are called saints. But if they do not endure to the end and turn away from the truth, then they obviously are not saints.
I can understand everyone not understanding everything. That's fine; as we are all striving for the truth. But the over the top attitude is not edifying in the least. Are we really having a blowout over the definition of the word 'saints'? I mean come on, are we really this carnal? It's not that serious...
Marques
--- End quote ---
Marques point that " If they do not endure to the end and they turn away from the truth, they obviously are not Saints(Holy Ones-Samsons preference from hagioi-gk) hits the nail on the head."
Endurance to the end of ones life is required, the Saints or Holy Ones are chosen
out of the many called, so until one endures to the end, they are only prospective
" Saints" until then.
Kind Regards, Samson.
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