> General Discussions
Spirit and Soul
Kat:
Hi Ariel,
--- Quote ---If they are one and the same, why not use one word only, why separate words.
--- End quote ---
The spirit and soul are not the same. The way I see it the spirit is what gives us life/being/self, even animals have this. Where as the soul is the body/brain combined with the spirit/life. Human have a unique brain and with a mind which gives us intellect and the ability to reason and heart which is the seat of affection and emotions, such as love, joy, grief, enmity, courage, pleasure, etc. Where as animals do have a soul (spirit + body), but they have a simple brain geared with instincts.
Here are a couple of emails that explains this.
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,118.0.html -----
Man is made of TWO components--body and spirit. God never put a soul into Adam. The soul of man is not a component, but rather the product of two combined components, namely: body and spirit. God formed man's body out of the ground. He then breathed into this body the breath of life (spirit), and the MAN, not some separate component, but the man became a "LIVING SOUL." The soul is not the living soul, but rather the man is the living soul. There is no soul without the body of man.
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3253.0.html ----
the spirit is not the soul. The spirit does not have consciousness. The spirit cannot think thoughts, and that is why our "thoughts perish" at death according to David. Our spirit as well as Christ Spirit had to be reunited with a BODY before we or He would have consciousness again. Jesus was DEAD for three days, not "absent from the body" for three days.
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I hope this is helpful.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
high pulpit:
Some more interesting thoughts (questions):
1. God said to Jeremiah:"Before I formed you (body and soul, depending on when consciousness is attained) in your mother's womb, I knew you (is that not spirit, coming from God, a part of God Himself) and I ordained you to be a prophet unto the nations..." (is this spirit not a definite program, thought(s), a plan, a predestined destiny which many times is not achieved (as God said to Jeremiah:"Say not you are a child....") due to this incorruptible body and the fallen world's influence and factors which we will eventually be saved from so that we can fully be this pan and attain to this fullness which is a true part of God, one with him ???????). Is God not building a family of Himself in which He will be ALL in ALL???
2. What does it mean when the bible says John the Baptist came "in the spirit (which spirit?) and power of Elijah". And what does Jesus really mean when He says that John the Baptist was Elijah which was to come?
mharrell08:
--- Quote from: high pulpit on November 05, 2008, 01:09:29 AM ---Some more interesting thoughts (questions):
1. God said to Jeremiah:"Before I formed you (body and soul, depending on when consciousness is attained) in your mother's womb, I knew you (is that not spirit, coming from God, a part of God Himself) and I ordained you to be a prophet unto the nations..." (is this spirit not a definite program, thought(s), a plan, a predestined destiny which many times is not achieved (as God said to Jeremiah:"Say not you are a child....") due to this incorruptible body and the fallen world's influence and factors which we will eventually be saved from so that we can fully be this pan and attain to this fullness which is a true part of God, one with him ???????). Is God not building a family of Himself in which He will be ALL in ALL???
2. What does it mean when the bible says John the Baptist came "in the spirit (which spirit?) and power of Elijah". And what does Jesus really mean when He says that John the Baptist was Elijah which was to come?
--- End quote ---
1. Here's a previous discussion regarding this passage: http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,857.0.html
2. Copy of email reply from Ray:
Dear Addison:
How long have you be reading my material now? You are doing what tens of thousands of detractors have done when they question my teaching--they MISS-QUOTE me virtually always. It is hard enough to be perfectly flawless in every word, phrase and statement of thousands of pages when I am quoted correctly. But people generally don't catch my real mistakes. So let's be accurate about what I said with regards to THE JEWS:
[1] "Jesus was speaking to THE JEWS in Matt. 7:21; and Jesus was speaking to THE JEWS in Luke 13:24."
Next with regards to THE CHURCH:
[2] "Not only does it apply to the church today, it applies almost EXCLUSIVELY to the church of Christian believers from the time of the Apostles until this very day."
Now then, did I REALLY say what you said that I said? DID I say: "...He was
T-A-L-K-I-N-G 'exclusively' to the church of Christian believers"? NO, no I didn't.
Here is what I said: "...it A-P-P-L-I-E-S almost EXCLUSIVELY to the church of Christian believers." I never said that that He was "TALKING" exclusively to the Jews. There are dozens and dozens of Scriptures that are speaking to or about ONE person or persons, but that are APPLIED to someone else altogether. Example, the prophesies concerning Joseph and Mary and the birth of Jesus.
Notice another example: "But I [Jesus] say unto you, that ELIJAH is come already...Then the disciples understood that He SPOKE unto them OF JOHN the baptist" (Matt. 17:12--13). Jesus "SAID Elijah," but He MEANT "John," because the SPIRIT of Elijah really did represent the spirit of John and his ministry.
So where I actually used the word "APPLIES," you said I used the word "talking," and where I did actually use the word "TALKING," you say I used the word "refers." And so you stated my position wrongly in both cases.
Paul speaks of carnal racial Jews, and spiritual GENTILE JEWS. In my Towers paper at the very top of our home page I have a heading: 'WHEN ARE JEW NOT JEWS AND GENTILES ARE JEWS?' You need to read ALL the material on our site and most of your questions will be answered for you.
God be with you,
Ray
Represent...like a shadow or type...something that points the way to something else.
Hope this helps,
Marques
Kat:
Hi High Pulpit,
--- Quote ---God said to Jeremiah:"Before I formed you (body and soul, depending on when consciousness is attained) in your mother's womb,
--- End quote ---
First of all we do not pre-exist. I really don't think that is what you are saying, but just wanted to make sure. And here is an email that shows what Ray thinks on this.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,5611.0.html ----
Is it possible that we chose to be here in human form to experience what it is to sin because we are from perfect form and don’t know imperfection?
COMMENT: That's just a bunch of double-talk. Before we existed we didn't "choose" to be anything. Humans did not exist before they were physically born into this world. Only God is perfect and God does have a knowledge of evil. Being in the Image of God involves knowing good and evil.
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--- Quote ---I knew you (is that not spirit, coming from God, a part of God Himself)
--- End quote ---
All things are of God, so yes the spirit that gives us life is from God.
1Co 8:6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.
--- Quote ---and I ordained you to be a prophet unto the nations..." (is this spirit not a definite program, thought(s), a plan, a predestined destiny which many times is not achieved (as God said to Jeremiah:"Say not you are a child....") due to this incorruptible body and the fallen world's influence and factors
--- End quote ---
You have to understand that God is sovereign. God has a predetermined plan worked out (nothing happens by chance) to the most minute detail, that is why He "knew" Jeremiah, He knows the end from the beginning" (Isa. 46:10).
His being sovereign means He can not fall or not achieve to any degree His plan, it will be carried out to the utmost detail. Sometimes what God would say to people in the OT was for 'their' benefit to bring about that part of His plan and God intended for it to go that way. This world is going exactly the way God planned it to, He has not change a single thing because of this world's influences and factors.
A good Bible study you might want to read is 'Can a Sovereign God Change?'
transcript
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,7714.0.html
Audio
http://bible-truths.com/audio/Bible Study 5_03_08 Pt 1.mp3
http://bible-truths.com/audio/Bible Study 5_03_08 Pt 2.mp3
http://bible-truths.com/audio/Bible Study 5_03_08 Pt 3.mp3
mercy, peace and love
Kat
hammerandnails:
Dear Kat, I get it now!!!
Thanks again ;D
Blessings,
Ariel
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