> General Discussions
Having Trouble Understanding the "Law"
Origen II:
You see, I understand also that the food laws were just a 'type'.
But then I don't understand if breaking the food laws is the same as say...breaking one of the 10 Commandments.
Are the 10 Commandments the only things we can sin against...or are the other 603 Laws also considered somethings we can sin against? If this is so, then why do we still hold to certain precepts, ackowledging them as sins, yet we don't to others?
You see, I don't believe we should follow the Food Laws, but I want to know what makes them different from other Laws and WHY and WHERE it's pointed out.
Origen II:
--- Quote from: Steve Crook ---Isa 1:11-14
(11) To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the LORD: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.
(12) When ye come to appear before me, who hath required this at your hand, to tread my courts?
(13) Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me; the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting.
(14) Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them.
Isa 43:23-24
(23) Thou hast not brought me the small cattle of thy burnt offerings; neither hast thou honored me with thy sacrifices. I have not caused thee to serve with an offering, nor wearied thee with incense.
(24) Thou hast bought me no sweet cane with money, neither hast thou filled me with the fat of thy sacrifices: but thou hast made me to serve with thy sins, thou hast wearied me with thine iniquities.
Jer 7:21-27
(21) Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Put your burnt offerings unto your sacrifices, and eat flesh.
(22) For I spoke not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices:
(23) But this thing commanded I them, saying, Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and ye shall be my people: and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well unto you.
(24) But they hearkened not, nor inclined their ear, but walked in the counsels and in the imagination of their evil heart, and went backward, and not forward.
(25) Since the day that your fathers came forth out of the land of Egypt unto this day I have even sent unto you all my servants the prophets, daily rising up early and sending them:
(26) Yet they hearkened not unto me, nor inclined their ear, but hardened their neck: they did worse than their fathers.
(27) Therefore thou shalt speak all these words unto them; but they will not hearken to thee: thou shalt also call unto them; but they will not answer thee.
It all comes down to what the Mosaic law was FOR. The LAWLESS.
What was the point of NOT eating/touching unclean meat? What is the spiritual application that can be applied to this Mosaic Law and raised?
The food requirments were there for a reason, to keep the lawless under a law, same as with homosexuality. Homosexuality comes from the heart, just the same as eating of certain foods, or not, comes from the same place. So, the real question for me, is not why we don't include the food laws in with keeping homosexuality a sin. The question I ask is, if Christ fullfilled the law, even man's added laws, then when he fulfilled those laws, what was then told to us concerning the estate of those laws?
Mat 15:17-20
(17) Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught?
(18) But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.
(19) For []out of the heart[/b] proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:
(20) These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.
Mar 7:7-16
(7) Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.[/u]
(8) For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
(9) And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
(10) For Moses said, Honor thy father and thy mother; and, whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
(11) But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
(12) And ye suffer him no more to do aught for his father or his mother;
(13) Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.
(14) And when he had called all the people unto him, he said unto them, Hearken unto me every one of you, and understand:
(15) There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him (HIS HEART), those are they that defile the man.
(16) If any man have ears to hear, let him hear.
Mar 7:18-23
(18) And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him;
(19) Because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats?
(20) And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man.
(21) For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,
(22) Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness:
(23) All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.
Didn't the physical Jews think their temple was great?
1Co 3:16-17
(16) Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
(17) If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
How again are we defiled? OUR HEART.....
1Ti 1:7-10
(7) Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.
(8) But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;
(9) Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
(10) For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
I tend to trust the words of our Lord and Christ when he says:
Mar 7:20
(20) And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man.
versus mans understanding BY WAY OF THE LAW:
--- End quote ---
Awesome scripture, Steve.
Are you suggesting that God never really told the Israelites to burn offerings etc...that the laws outside of the 10 Commandments were just Laws made up by Moses?
love_magnified:
--- Quote from: Origen II ---You see, I understand also that the food laws were just a 'type'.
But then I don't understand if breaking the food laws is the same as say...breaking one of the 10 Commandments.
Are the 10 Commandments the only things we can sin against...or are the other 603 Laws also considered somethings we can sin against? If this is so, then why do we still hold to certain precepts, ackowledging them as sins, yet we don't to others?
You see, I don't believe we should follow the Food Laws, but I want to know what makes them different from other Laws and WHY and WHERE it's pointed out.
--- End quote ---
They are no different from eachother. They all mean JESUS. I know you have heard that before, but understanding that answers all your questions. They are BOTH types and shadows of Christ within us. If we continue to think of the Law as something that is mandated and kept or broken, we can't get past a certain point. The food laws and the 10 commandments and the sacrifices, etc are the same, not different. They both represent Jesus Christ and him crucified within you.
The morality in the Law is not kept by us. It is kept by Christ in us, and so much more because Christ came with a higher law. He raised the bar and then he put himself in us to establish it. To me, all this talk about which laws we should keep and which ones are more important or less important misses the point. They are all equally important and equally fleshy. If Christ is in us, it is not a struggle: love eachother and avoid sexual immorality.
eutychus:
--- Quote from: Origen II ---
--- Quote from: Steve Crook ---Please re-read the posts made because you obviously are over-looking what has already been stated.
The "bar" has been raised, NOT ABOLISHED. It has been fulfilled.
Commiting physical adultery is SIN as well as SPIRITUAL adultery. Both are SIN. However, if you are following spiritual law then are also following physical law. Physical homosexuality is a SIN under the Mosaic Law. Physical homosexuality is SIN under the spiritual law.
It is SIN, period. If it is a "spiritual law", it is ALSO a Mosaic Law but redefined to include the spiritual....which is MORE REAL, and NOT THE SHADOW. If physical adultery is SIN under the Mosaic Law, then spiritual adultery is SIN under God's Law.
It is not abolished, it is raised to a spiritual truth. Thinking IT is DOING IT.
Under the Mosaic Law you can think about it all you want, but acting on it was a crime. Now, thinking it is THE crime, and acting on it is simply just the end result. Either way, you are still guilty ....even WITHOUT the physical act.
When Eve lusted after the apple according to her flesh and eyes, and she also hadthe pride of life knowing it would give her the knowledge of good and even, SHE HAD ALREADY DONE THE DEED and WAS GUILTY. She has already spiritually eaten the apple.
Basically, this all has already been stated, but if you are conversating with someone who has not been given eyes and ears to see this, then you are battling against our Father himself..
I am sorry if none of this post helps you...
--- End quote ---
The thing is that these post are helping me understand the nature of sex as a sin, but no one has yet pointed out why it isn't a sin to eat certain foods.
My real dilema is the food laws etc. What makes not eating certain foods any less a sin than homosexuality?
--- End quote ---
havent read all post posts :shock:
its not what goes in that defiles its what comes out
Harryfeat:
--- Quote from: love_magnified ---
--- Quote from: Origen II ---You see, I understand also that the food laws were just a 'type'.
But then I don't understand if breaking the food laws is the same as say...breaking one of the 10 Commandments.
Are the 10 Commandments the only things we can sin against...or are the other 603 Laws also considered somethings we can sin against? If this is so, then why do we still hold to certain precepts, ackowledging them as sins, yet we don't to others?
You see, I don't believe we should follow the Food Laws, but I want to know what makes them different from other Laws and WHY and WHERE it's pointed out.
--- End quote ---
They are no different from eachother. They all mean JESUS. I know you have heard that before, but understanding that answers all your questions. They are BOTH types and shadows of Christ within us. If we continue to think of the Law as something that is mandated and kept or broken, we can't get past a certain point. The food laws and the 10 commandments and the sacrifices, etc are the same, not different. They both represent Jesus Christ and him crucified within you.
The morality in the Law is not kept by us. It is kept by Christ in us, and so much more because Christ came with a higher law. He raised the bar and then he put himself in us to establish it. To me, all this talk about which laws we should keep and which ones are more important or less important misses the point. They are all equally important and equally fleshy. If Christ is in us, it is not a struggle: love eachother and avoid sexual immorality.
--- End quote ---
Since you state...... "They are no different from eachother. They all mean JESUS. I know you have heard that before, but understanding that answers all your questions."
........does that mean that we are sinning if we eat pork and shellfish. Do we have to abide in spirit to the other 603 commandments?
This is my source of confusion also. I enjoy eating shellfish and never gave it a second thought as being sinful.
feat
ps euty where do you get those clever smilies?
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