> General Discussions
Lake of Fire...Num 31:21
mharrell08:
--- Quote from: mharrell08 on December 10, 2008, 04:27:21 PM ---Love which is the bond (holds all together) of spiritual perfection, and is the greatest of attributes, is being MADE perfect. It is being refined and purified by our God who is a consuming fire. From these and other scriptures, I believe gold is a shadow/type for LOVE. The rest of the metals/minerals from Num 31:21 I believe are also attributes in us (that we possess) that must be cleansed/refined before we can enter the Kingdom.
--- End quote ---
Excerpt from LOF series #3 (http://bible-truths.com/lake3.html):
And so we are assured that EVERYONE will be "revealed," "tried," "salted," and "baptized" "in FIRE." And these fiery trials as Peter calls them go on for a lifetime. If it were real, physical fire, all believers’ lives would be short indeed. God is SPIRIT, and God is a CONSUMING FIRE. It is God’s SPIRIT that is likened to fire. The spiritual teaching in this symbol is to recognize what real fire accomplishes and to then use that as an analogy as to what God DOES TO US (or more properly FOR US).
Fire does a number of things:
1. Fire CHANGES things. Fire brings about molecular changes in the materials that are burned. God’s spiritual fire will make changes in our mind, heart, and spirit.
2. Fire PURGES. In times past if a building were diseased and rat-infested, they would purge away the filth by burning it down. We are to be purged from all our diseases of sin and carnality. Jesus Christ paid the penalty of sin for us, but now God wants to get at the root and core of what caused us to sin in the first place. We all need desperately to be CHANGED and PURGED.
3. Fire BURNS UP combustible materials that have no value in saving. God will burn out of all of us the straw, grass, and stubble, which represent evil and wrong doctrines, idols of the heart, and philosophies that exalt themselves against God.
4. Fire PURIFIES things of value which we do want to retain. The analogy is used in the Scriptures of purifying gold by fire to make it more beautiful and more valuable. Gold represents the highest doctrines of spiritual understanding such as the Love of God and the Sovereignty of God, and salvation of all.
No one teaches us more regarding the fiery trials of life than the apostle to the nations, Paul. Paul was "revealed, tried, salted, and baptized" in God’s "CONSUMING FIRE," and yet never a single hair on his head was ever singed.
Well 1 out of 3 is not that bad... :D
Love as well as the Sovereignty of God and the salvation of all represent gold. I am currently reading through the LOF again and am on this particular paper...a little more patience and I could have referenced this section in the previous post. Sorry to jump the gun... :D
Marques
Kat:
I thought this might go with what you have brought forth Marques.
Rev 3:18 I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined in the fire, that you may be rich; and white garments, that you may be clothed, that the shame of your nakedness may not be revealed; and anoint your eyes with eye salve, that you may see.
http://bible-truths.com/lake3.html ------------------------------
STRONG’s Greek Dictionary of the New Testament, page 219, #4442, pur; a primary word; "fire" (literally OR FIGURATIVELY. Pur is used (besides its ordinary natural significance):
(1) of the holiness of God, which consumes all that is inconsistent therewith, Heb. 10:27; 12:29; cf. Rev. 1:14; 2:18; 10:1; 15:2; 19:12;
(1a) similarly of the holy angels as His ministers, Heb. 1:7;
(1b) in Rev. 3:18 it is SYMBOLIC of that which tries the faith of saints, PRODUCING WHAT WILL GLORIFY THE LORD;
(2) of the divine judgment, testing the deeds of believers, at the judgment seat of Christ I Cor. 3:13 and 15;
(3) of the fire of DIVINE JUDGMENT upon the REJECTERS of Christ, Matt. 3:11 (where a distinction is to be made between the baptism of the holy Spirit at Pentecost and the "fire" of divine retribution; Acts 2:3 could not refer to baptism); Lk. 3:16."
End of quotation, (All CAPS emphasis are mine).
I call your attention to the statement in Strong’s (1b) "In Rev. 3:18 it [fire] is SYMBOLIC, of that which tries the faith of saints, PRODUCING WHAT WILL GLORIFY THE LORD"! (CAPS emphasis mine).
I just love it when Christian Scholars will occasionally just absolutely "nail" a Scriptural Truth. Notice this beautiful and profound Scriptural Truth: The symbolic fire of Rev. 3:18 tries the faith of the saints, and PRODUCES what will GLORIFY THE LORD! ASTOUNDING!
Carefully note that it is not the "believer" who "produces" these glorious things, but it is the "SYMBOLIC FIRE" that produces them. And just Who is this "symbolic fire?" It is, of course, GOD -- "For OUR GOD IS A CONSUMING FIRE." (Heb. 12:29)!
Therefore it is GOD who "PRODUCES" qualities in the saints that will GLORIFY HIMSELF! God’s consuming SPIRITUAL fire (remember that "GOD IS SPIRIT" Jn. 4:24) does the "producing," not the saint,
"For HIS ACHIEVEMENT are we, being created in Christ Jesus ..." (Eph. 2:10).
"Now what have you which you did not OBTAIN? Now if you OBTAINED it also [from GOD] why are you boasting as though [you are] not obtaining [it from God]?" (I Cor. 4:7 Concordant Literal New Testament).
"All is of God" (II Cor. 5:18).
"The One Who is operating ALL in accord with the counsel of HIS will" (Eph. 1:11).
Etc.
In statement (1) the editor of Strong’s cites seven more Scriptures that are used symbolically and figuratively to demonstrate "the holiness of God, which CONSUMES ALL that is inconsistent therewith." It doesn’t consume their physical bodies, nor does it burn their physical bodies to produce pain, but it "CONSUMES" all that is not consistent with God’s holiness. And these are the things of the heart, mind and spirit! It is not the "body" that needs chastisement and purification, it is the MIND, HEART, AND SPIRIT that needs purification from unholiness. You cannot burn pride and vanity out of one’s heart with REAL FIRE (besides the advocates of torturing with real fire for all eternity admit that it accomplishes NOTHING). It takes the fire of God’s spirit to burn away evils that have their origin in the realm of spirit.
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mercy, peace and love
Kat
Carlos31:
"Then you should have STATED that is was SPIRITUAL from the beginning, but Carlos31 you DID NOT."
Who would be stupid enough to say verses are mostly literal???????
99.9% of the time they are spiritual, whats the point in saying they are spiritual? thats super obvious.
Akira329:
Hey Guys I found this email of Ray's that I would like to add to the disscusion
Read Matt: 13:42 and try that on for size.(This verse is covered in the Judgment of the Wicked thread)
[Ray Replies]
Dear "Onfire4jesus,"
I am not sure what you mean by "try that on for size." Do you not understand this verse and are asking for an explanation?
Many spiritually ignorant people believe that Jesus is saying that He will torture people in a "furnace of fire" for all eternity. I don't know why they think He would do that. Perhaps they think Jesus is a trillions billions times meaner than Saddam's two terrorist sons were.
The Scriptures speak many times about a furnace of fire melting, purifying, and burning off the unwanted dross when refining such metals as silver and gold. In I Cor. 3:12-12 Pauls gives us this same analogy of purifying gold, silver, or precious stones, while burning off the dross of wood, straw, and stubble. But Paul is clearly speaking of PEOPLE'S WORKS being tried and purified in this fire. The result of ALL that go through this purifying fire of God is that THEY ARE ALL SAVED! "If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself SHALL BE SAVED, yet so as BY FIRE." There is the wonderful good news about the outcome of God's divine judgments.
And so Jesus also alluded to this endtime judgment of the lake of fire when everyman's work would be tried in the lake of fire (or furnace of fire). And we know just what the fire is, because it purifies as brimstone, which is DIVINE! God HIMSELF IS a "consuming fire" (Heb. 12:29). God even prophesied of this purifying fire of judgment back in the book of Malachi. I don't have the time to prove to you from the Bible that "Levi" is representative of ALL HUMANITY, but with that in mind, let's read Malachi 32-3, "But who may abide the day of His coming? and sho shall stand when He appears? for He is like a REFINER'S FIRE, and like fullers' sope: and He shall sit as a REFINER AND PURIFIER [need I even comment that we do not torture or punish silver and gold in a furnace?] of silver: and He shall purify THE SONS OF LEVI, and purge them AS gold and silver, [why? for the fun of torturing them for all eternity? No, read on...] that they may offer unto the Lord an OFFERING IN RIGHTEOUSNESS!
Oh how so many Christians despise these marvelous words of God! God's judgments bring RIGHTEOUSNESS, NOT ETERNAL TORTURE! That's SATANIC! God IS righteous and when our Righteous God brings judgment upon the world, they TOO will become righteous! Sure they will. The fires of God's spiritual furnace will PURGE AND PURIFY all mankind. We read of it EVERYWHERE in His Word:
"...For when thy [God's] JUDGMENTS are in the earth, the INHABITANTS OF THE WORLD will learn RIGHTEOUSNESS" (Isa. 26:9).
And so, if I may borrow your words, "TRY THAT ON FOR SIZE"!!
Sincerely,
Ray
--- Quote from: Carlos31 on December 11, 2008, 08:13:09 PM ---"Then you should have STATED that is was SPIRITUAL from the beginning, but Carlos31 you DID NOT."
Who would be stupid enough to say verses are mostly literal???????
99.9% of the time they are spiritual, whats the point in saying they are spiritual? thats super obvious.
--- End quote ---
Interesting that you would put a percentage to it, Where in scripture is the literal .1%?
Should we rip that portion out from scripture?
Its not obvious to everyone Carlos:
Mat 13:10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
Mat 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
Mat 13:12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
Mat 13:13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
Mat 13:14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
Mat 13:15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
Mat 13:16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.
Mat 13:17 For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.
Some people are actually blind to these spiritual truths, I once was, so were you.
Most do not know their works will be tried by fire but actually believe their flesh will burn in real fire forever.
Pity those who do not know and let patience work her perfect work!
Antaiwan
Carlos31:
I did not say they were literal!!!
stop putting words in my mouth!
you yourself said that I should have mentioned they were spiritual.
I Shake my head, when I see you saying that no scripture is 100% spiritual.
Ignorance...
Does a cat have a tail?
prov 26:5
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