> General Discussions
Church today...
aqrinc:
Judith,
I think no such thing, just pointing out the stark difference between what we want to do versus what we are called to do. Separation is a hard thing when we love our neighbor, but separate we must in if we would be of any use in accomplishing the very goal you want. I am 56 and have been around long enough to be stubborn about anything disagreeable to me but; i also have learned that the less i try to do for the kingdom; the more i get done and the converse is also true for me. Here are a few Scriptures and comments from Ray to help us out.
excerpt from: http://bible-truths.com/lake7.html
NOT MANY WISE ARE CALLED
Maybe if you or I created the human race, we would have done it that way. But we didn’t; God did; and He didn’t do it our way. God never intended for everyone to understand His Word or His Plan except for the few that He calls in every generation. He is not even trying to save the whole world in this lifetime or even in this age. The prophet Habakkuk tells us this,
"For the earth shall be FILLLED with the knowledge of the glory of the Lord, as the waters cover the sea" (Hab. 2:14).
Oh it "shall" shall it? WHY NOT NOW? Wouldn’t it be better NOW if the earth were FILLLED with the knowledge of the glory of the Lord? Why later? Because it is God’s way. Let me quote Hab. 2:3 from the Revised Standard Version:
"For there is still a vision for the APPOINTED TIME; it speaks of THE END, and does not lie., If it seems to tarry, wait for it, it will surely come, IT WILL NOT DELAY."
God’s ways take time and He does everything according to His schedule, trust me, EVERYTHING IS RIGHT ON SCHEDULE.
Why God hasn’t even called whole categories of people during the past two thousand years:
"For you see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, ARE CALLED" (I Cor. 1:26).
And of those called, only a "few are chosen." And those few are admonished to search, and hunt, and dig for the truth. None of this is an accident nor is it God’s plan gone amuck. God’s plan is on schedule to the millionth of a millisecond. God knows how many hairs were lost on your head today because He had already planned how many you would lose, a long time ago.
Excerpt from winning souls: http://bible-truths.com/souls.htm
GOD PREDETERMINES WHO GETS SAVED AND WHEN
"Now we are aware that God [Who? GOD. Men—ourselves? NO—GOD] is working all together for the good of those who are loving God who are called according to the purpose that, whom He foreknew, He designates beforehand, also, to be conformed to the image of His Son for Him to be Firstborn among many brethren. Now whom He designates beforehand, these He calls also, and whom He calls, these He justifies also; now whom He justifies, these He glorifies also" (Rom. 8:28-30, Concordant Literal New Testament).
It is ALL OF GOD. It is not wrong to tell others of your knowledge of God and His Word. It is not, however, your responsibility to "get people saved." Only God can do that.
It is GOD who does the calling:
"For ye see your calling brethren how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called. But God has chosen [Who? ‘GOD’] the weak things of this world to confound the things which are mighty…" (I Cor. 1:26-27).
It is GOD who does the dragging:
"No man can come to me, except the Father which has sent Me, draw him [Gk: ‘drag him’]…" (John 6:44).
It is CHRIST Who chooses from those His Father dragged:
"Ye have not chosen Me, but I HAVE CHOSEN YOU…" (John 15:16).
Eventually this will include all mankind:
"And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me" (John 12:32).
And all will respond to God’s judgments and chastisements:
george. :)
judith collier:
I never thought in a million years I could save anybody. But I still don't see why I have to stay away from other believers.
judith collier:
I don't get that one verse--"it PLEASED God by by their preaching ??? And that other verse in Habbukk where he said the vision was far off---That's a verse the Lord gave to me and I never to this day even knew what the vision was, I just thought it was of Him because He showed me his Majesty. And I never knew what I was supposed to do. I had to look up the word "justified" because it came to me in the Spirit so strong and I figured it was the lord telling me I was justified even though I didn't know what it was. It has been a long haul. I know only God can save. And when I do anything good all people say is "how good Judy is" and I don't want that, I want God to be glorified not me but they think i am a great person and that is not my intent. I do no good really as far as God goes.And I was the weakest and just about the dumbest.
mharrell08:
Few excerpts from email to Ray regarding 'church':
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,7233.0.html
Dear Robert: Unless you are interested in the Truths of God, I don't think you should bother to read the material on my site. It is straight from the Scriptures, and for that reason, it is most offensive to most Christians.
There is no "local church." I do not belong to any local church or institutionalized denomination of men. No such group would ever tolerate anyone teaching the Truths of God. I am not here to parrot the "damnable heresies" (I Pet. 2:1) of some "local church."
My site is not for religious hobbyists. On this site you will learn the plan and purpose of God, which involves changing one's life completely and living godly and righteously according to the teachings of Jesus. Not many people are interested in changing or living godly lives. If you want "religion," go to church--ANY church. If you are interested in the Truths of God, start with the first article at the top of our home page: "YOU FOOLS! YOU HYPOCRITES! YOU SNAKES"--Meet the Jesus that most hate.
Did Jesus "establish His Christian presence in His community?" Wait....His community....wasn't it His "community" that CRUCIFIED HIM? Wasn't it the religious leaders of God's Church and Temple that CRUCIFIED HIM? Are you wanting to find such a religious man as that? One who is "established in his community?" One whom everyone "speaks well of?" I assure you that you are at the wrong web site. Read my first article.
God be with you,
Ray
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2678.0.html
Dear Neill:
I am exactly of NO church or denomination of institutionalized men. I am a member "The Body of Chirst," which is a Scriptural term and represents the followers of Jesus.
God be with you,
Ray
PS You don't really believe that there is a "church" that teaches what we teach on bibletruths.com, do you?
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2193.0.html
Dear Reader:
I appreciate your good intent, however, I sincerely (in LOVE) believe that your are also wrong in suggesting that I do not do what I do in love and that naming names, etc., is a sin.
If that be the case, then our Apostle Paul is in BIG TROUBLE with His God, seeing that they named numerous names of those who taught heresy and caused devision. Furthermore we are INSTRUCTED to "Expose those who contradict it [it being the True Doctrines of God]" Titus 1:9 (See Concordant Version nd New Revised Standard Version).
I do not "judge" these men: I EXPOSE THEIR HERESY!! I have repeatedly stated that many of these lying two-faced false prophets and hypocrites have very plesant personalities, etc.
I think that I shall continue to do what God has called me to do, but thanks anyway.
God be with you,
Ray
PS Don't have the time to comment on those who are "sincere," but teach heresy.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4814.0.html
Dear Nate: I get asked this a lot, but there is no easy formula for me to give you. You know that you should obey God. This is the primary thing we must all do. But for me to tell you how to live your life on a daily basis, I'm afraid I can't do. If you don't know whether you should continue living in the Babylonian Church system, what good would it be for me to tell you that God says, "COME OUT OF HER MY PEOPLE...." (Rev. 18:4)? If you try to convert your family, friends, and relatives to your new-found truths, they will think you crazy or may even turn on you. So leave them alone. The way you conduct your life will speak volumes about what you believe, however, clever arguments will convince no one. Of the tens of thousands of detractors who have tried to contradict my teachings, which I then answered and proved them wrong with the Scriptures, how many do you suppose said: "Oh, okay, now I see it. I'm sorry. I was deceived. I see now that you do teach the truth"? Would you believe 2 or 3? That's right--2 or 3 out of tens of thousands.
You will face ever-changing challenges in your life--every few seconds, minutes, and hours of every day. You will have to decide how to handle these situations, one at a time. Learn the Truth and then live by the Truth. Did Jesus teach His apostles how to react to every situation that would confront them after He was gone? No, no He didn't. Life is indeed a challenge, and in the final analysis it all comes down to YOU AND GOD. I am at the same place that you are, Nate. No one tells me how to solve all my problems. I just obey God and rely on Him to see me through. Many people want to be teachers after learning a few of the basic truths of God. This is generally a mistake, as it takes more to be a teacher than a desire to teach. I might desire to be a great singer, or a great speller--the reality is both are totally out of the question. I am what I am by the grace of God. I realize that most think it is rather scary to try and live a righteous life not knowing exactly what to do and how to do it. Your darn right it's scary. Life is scary. But knowing that there is a loving God Who is carrying out a righteous and wise purpose on this earth is a giant aid to our infirmities.
There is no better way to assuage our own inadequacies than to help others with theirs. I remember when I was going to college back in California, we took a weekend camping trip to the San Bernadino Mountains. One day we climbed this mountain. A couple of chaperone's brought their children. At one place high up the mountain we followed a trail that was precariously close to a cliff with a long drop. I was getting a little nervous. However, close to me was one of the children (a girl of maybe 8 or 9 years), and she was beginning to have a panic attack. I took her by the hand and put her on the inside and assured her that we would not fall. My fear left me immediately, and the little girl did just fine also. I never forgot that experience. Help and love others, and your life will begin to take on meaning.
God be with you,
Ray
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4591.0.html
Dear Jayson: I think I know what you mean by saying "your [my] church," but the truth really is, that I don't have a church. The world has churches, and Satan has his church (called in Revelation "The Synagogue of Satan), but I belong to none of them. The Church of Jesus Christ, the Church of the Living God, can only be joined by being SPIRITUALLY BAPTIZED INTO THE DEATH OF JESUS CHRIST. All spiritually converted people who forsake the glitter of this world's philosophies and materialism, are members of Christ's Church. I do claim to have a ministry in that Church. We advertise on the major search engines such as "Google." Tens of thousands of people a month come to our site and hear the true Gospel of Jesus Christ and the plan of God for humanity. Individuals are also posting and spreading the material of bible-truths.com. To my surprise my name even pops up numerous times in such places as Wikipedia articles. We now have a couple of dozen people w ho contribute regularly to this ministry. One day I hope we will have a thousand, and then we will really begin to make a dent in our coverage. But as Jesus lamented: "The harvest truly is plenteous, but the laborers are few" (Matt. 9:37).
God be with you,
Ray
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3446.0.html
Dear Roy:
You don't need a church when you learn that YOU ARE THE CHURCH. God is wherever you are, so don't feel deserted.
God be with you,
Ray
This is a subject that continues to cause division among members here when we all are to take on the mind of Christ [Phil 2:5] and be of one accord [Phil 2:2]. Though it takes the spirit of God to bring us into the unity of the spirit, some here are choosing to dwell in the flesh. God does not make anyone dwell in the flesh, we do that all by ourselves.
The members here know it is harder for others to simply leave the church...no one ever said it is easy. But to resist the truth and take a stubborn, hardened stance on this is NOT OF GOD. If this is an issue that one is still searching for understanding of, fine. We all have our different things we struggle with and these things humble us. But do not stand up and try to reason with wickedness and unbelief. That is not humble in the least and only causes division.
And this is my opinion, but it still amazes me (even after a year) that we all came here based off Ray's teachings. But then after a short while to joining the forum, a few members will disregard the very teachings which brought them here for their own, personal beliefs. These own, personal beliefs are the doctrines of (insert your name here) and not the doctrines of Christ [John 7:16-17]. Which one are we to follow?
Thanks,
Marques
P.S. Ray has numerous email replies to people regarding church here: http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3108.0.html, in the #7 reply thread.
Marlene:
Judith, I have not been a member here too long, but I was going through the same thoughts you are now. I saw many people in the church where I was going as way better people then I was. I also, had concern about them that I did not need to have. I had fear for the ones who God had not called out yet. When, in reality he was going to handle them the same way he handles us now who have been called out.
Now, I know that truth is not taught in those churches. I worked with a girl who was from Jordan. She thought we worshiped more then one God cause of the Trinity. I believe if I would have known the truth maybe she would have believed in Christ. I had a friend many years ago who Sister was always telling her we were going to Hell. I hate to say it now, but I believed nonbelievers were going to Hell. Now, I see that many may have called upon Christ , but because of the lies they did not even want to hear about him. So, for me half-truths are enough for me not to want to be in Babylon's Churches.
Now, I feel bad but my Mother lives with me she is 88 she likes to go to church more to be social with the world. She believes in God but never understood the Trinity and never believed there was a Hell. My Husband, liked to go to be social too. When, I decided not to go anymore they both said, "If you don't go we won"t go. Boy that made me have such a guilty feeling about them. But, I have had times in my life where I hurt God for others. I am no longer in that place. I love him above anything. Another way I look at things now is that they made that choice I never forced them. Now, My Mother wants me to buy her a Bible like they use on here. They listen to things from here with me now. I know sometimes they miss church, but at least they have not turned there backs on me. I am so blessed for that as I am not well. I just can't go to a place that does not tell the truth. We don't even know when others will be called out. I was very active in my church. I use to sing solos in church and people would brag. There was times I felt like a hypocrite cause I had many sins I could not overcome. After, learning the truth he helped me to have victory over some and still guides and leads me. I read my Bible more and really love my alone time with him.
I don't know if this helps any. But, when God showed me the truth I did not want to turn away from it . Right before finding out there was no Hell, I had a sin in my life that I felt desearved Hell. I just seemed to fail him so badly. He helped me overcome that sin and set me free from the fear of Hell. Actually, thinking he would send anyone to Hell was the worse sin that I think I have ever done. I was thinking about his Character and that was not good. If, I thought I could love, did I think he could love less. Now, I look on it and see how dumb I really was. I mean he tells us to love enemies and we think he doesn't. But, we are children of thed truth now and we have no business with the dark. All, we can do is pray for them, but even that is his call not ours.
In His Love,
Marlene
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version