> General Discussions
GOD CAUSES EVERYTHING
smeacham:
--- Quote from: Ricky on February 25, 2009, 11:02:32 PM ---Hello all, I have had a big beef with this truth of not having free will. For the last several months I have tried to solve this beef by pretending (to myself only) that I do have free will. I know I don't have it , but pretending to myself I do have it, helps me do better for God because I know the difference between right and wrong now, what is right in life for God, or maybe the way He would like me to be. Does this make any sense at all.
Bless you all. Ricky
--- End quote ---
Hi Ricky,
I have never felt a peace that compares to the peace of knowing that God is in total control. When I do good, I know that God gets the glory. When I do bad, I know that I am weak, but God is using that weakness for something good. When good things happen, I know that God is blessing me. When bad things happen, I know that God is using it for something good.
If at any time I'm thinking something else, like it was ME that accomplished a thing, or that GOD doesn't love me anymore, this deep-seated understanding quickly humbles me, corrects me, and puts me back on the right path.
Steve
Ricky:
Hello, maybe pretend is the wrong word, and if it is I do not know what the right word would be. I see it like this, God is the cause, so how am I doing anything on my own. Is it not God causing me to do what I do, good or evil? Would this not be for my own good in learning? If I go outside my home and evil comes to me, is not God the cause of that. And my actions toward that evil, would God not be the cause of that as well. And the choice I make for handling that evil, either with good or evil, would God not be the cause of that as well? Where do I have the power to make choices if God is the cause of what I do or not do? I have dumped all sins in my life, but one, or should I say that God has shown me how to dump them, God is the cause of that. God is the cause of everything that happens in life, I can understand that and accept it. So what would he need Satan for, so He does not get the blame for anything or what? God is the cause, I see this being the cause of the choices I make as well it is impossible for me to do anything on my own. It seems like what I am saying here, right now, what you are reading, is not God the cause of this? I am not fighting God, I would not fight anyone that I could not defeat, what a waste of time that would be.I am searching for the understanding of the cause. Somehow the Cause, Freewill and Choices, do not go together. And the battle goes on with me. Please continue to answer this for me so that God can cause me to see the right way.
Ricky
Marky Mark:
--- Quote from: Ricky on February 26, 2009, 11:50:24 AM ---Hello, maybe pretend is the wrong word, and if it is I do not know what the right word would be. I see it like this, God is the cause, so how am I doing anything on my own. Is it not God causing me to do what I do, good or evil? Would this not be for my own good in learning? If I go outside my home and evil comes to me, is not God the cause of that. And my actions toward that evil, would God not be the cause of that as well. And the choice I make for handling that evil, either with good or evil, would God not be the cause of that as well? Where do I have the power to make choices if God is the cause of what I do or not do? I have dumped all sins in my life, but one, or should I say that God has shown me how to dump them, God is the cause of that. God is the cause of everything that happens in life, I can understand that and accept it. So what would he need Satan for, so He does not get the blame for anything or what? God is the cause, I see this being the cause of the choices I make as well it is impossible for me to do anything on my own. It seems like what I am saying here, right now, what you are reading, is not God the cause of this? I am not fighting God, I would not fight anyone that I could not defeat, what a waste of time that would be.I am searching for the understanding of the cause. Somehow the Cause, Freewill and Choices, do not go together. And the battle goes on with me. Please continue to answer this for me so that God can cause me to see the right way.
Ricky
--- End quote ---
Ricky an email to Ray about choice...
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,6440.0.html
If it is God who controls our every thought and action, would'nt your teachings be in vain? If we cant make the decision to renew our minds, then why waste your energy and time trying to convince us of truth? I agree with 99.9% of your teachings, but I'm struggling with this one. God Bless Your Heart, Chad
Dear Chad: I get asked this question about every 72 hours, month after month. You make all your own choices and you think all your own thoughts, and you have a "will" to do so. What you don't have, is a will that is FREE FROM CAUSALITY to do these things. People will say things like: "What ever MADE you think that; or what ever MADE you do such and such." There is your answer. We know inherently that there are reasons CAUSES for your thoughts and choices. You can make a choice that does not have a cause somewhere, and if something is caused to happen it could not have been otherwise. I teach the truths of God because this is just one way that God CAUSES people to see the truth (I Cor. 1:21). The foolishness of teaching and preaching CAUSES people to see and understand and believe and act accordingly. It is not correct to state as you have that "God CONTROLS our every thought and action." He does not need to "control" us, as He already knows far in advance exactly what we WILL DO AND THINK based on the conditions and circumstances of our individual lives.
God be with you,
Ray
Peace...Mark
Try these also...
Free will / Experience of Evil
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,8711.0.html ---predetermined
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,7895.0.html -God's foreknowledge
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,7111.0.html ---"sin willfully"
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,7004.0.html ---caused
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,6992.0.html ---life?
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,6479.0.html -learning experience
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,6440.0.html ---God controls?
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,6318.0.html -does God have freewill
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,6295.0.html ---choice and volition
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,6212.0.html ---appearance of evil
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,6100.0.html ---desire and will
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,5690.msg46052.html#msg46052 -judgments of God
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,5648.0.html ---extremes?
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,5549.0.html ---forces us?
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,5158.0.html --free will verses?
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,5146.msg40669.html#msg40669 -God is First Cause
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4928.0.html ---sin no more?
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4827.msg37299.html#msg37299
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4751.0.html ---volunteer
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4702.0.html ---robots
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4680.0.html ---caused
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4596.0.html ---sins
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4326.0.html ---foreknowledge
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4300.0.html ---why all this
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4205.0.html ---vessels of dishonor
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4191.0.html -freedom to choose?
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4029.0.html ---ordained
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3948.0.html ---original thought
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3934.0.html ---analogy
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3841.0.html ---semantics
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3815.0.html ---preordained
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3796.0.html -subject/vanity
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3705.0.html ---darker-dawn
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php?topic=3682.msg27740#msg27740
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3622.0.html ---God's stage
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3095.0.html ---learning
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2721.0.html -experience/evil
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2697.0.html -cause & effect
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2590.0.html ---blaming God
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2545.0.html -thoughts/deeds
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2943.0.html -intelligent/robots
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2477.0.html ---cause/effect
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2462.0.html -"not of Myself"
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2354.0.html -foreknowledge
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2310.0.html -force at work
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2302.0.html ---sin
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2259.0.html ---accountable
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2215.0.html -predestination
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2194.0.html
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2142.0.html
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2099.0.html
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2050.0.html ---OT violence
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,1979.0.html ---love
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,1937.0.html ---choosing
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,1913.0.html -'free' renegade will?
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,1851.0.html -you volunteer
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,1775.0.html -belief is faith
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,1744.0.html ---our choices
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,1731.0.html ---free choice?
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,1700.0.html ---lusts
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,1610.0.html ---memory
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,1553.0.html -caused choice
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,1493.0.html ---volunteer *
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,1342.0.html
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,1189.0.html -voluntarily sin
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,1023.0.html
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,756.0.html
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,629.0.html
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,627.0.html
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,579.0.html
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php?topic=253.msg2134#msg2134 -evil
http://bible-truths.com/email3.htm#force
http://bible-truths.com/email4.htm#account ---accountable
http://bible-truths.com/email13.htm#passion
http://bible-truths.com/email13.htm#double
http://bible-truths.com/email14.htm#sounds
http://bible-truths.com/email15.htm#failure
http://bible-truths.com/email5.htm#puppets
http://bible-truths.com/email15.htm#impress
http://bible-truths.com/email17.htm#fireman
http://bible-truths.com/email17.htm#why *
http://bible-truths.com/email2.htm#freewill ---made weak*
http://bible-truths.com/email5.htm#Adam ---Adam’s sin *
http://bible-truths.com/email11.htm#responsibility ---accountable *
aqrinc:
Hi Ricky,
What you need to do is take a large helping of Humble pie. Stop being so stubborn and high minded as to think GOD indulges in word play. HE Said It, He Does It; Thats IT. He Is The Potter; you and i and everyone, are a pot or broken pot being fashioned into what; HE GOD WILLS.
Isa 29:16 (KJV)
Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter's clay: for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not? or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He had no understanding?
The Prosecution Rests and ask for a guilty verdict.
Jer 18: 2-4 (KJV)
2 Arise, and go down to the potter's house, and there I will cause thee to hear my words.
3 Then I went down to the potter's house, and, behold, he wrought a work on the wheels.
4 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.
Based on the evidence; all humans are declared guilty of being pots, most broken at the moment.
Rom 9:21 (KJV)
Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
Case Closed; POTTER GOD is Awarded Everything.
george. ;D ;D ;D
Kat:
Hi Ricky,
This is a struggle that we all have in trying to understand the concept of no free will, when we have believed it all of our lives.
Here are a few emails that may help your understanding.
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2943.0.html ----
I understand, Paul, that this truth is difficult for most to comprehend. And I
am not completely sure why this is so. I think possibly because we have
been trained and programmed to see too many things in only two dimensions,
when in reality there is a third dimention, but it is an illusion created by God
giving us two eyes spaced apart at the right distances to give us the illusion of
depth perception. Well, we need a little spiritual depth perception.
Theologians and clerics would have us believe that there are only two possibilities
with regards to man's either having free choice or not having free choice.
[1] We either have free will/choice and can make decisions based on no causing factors
whatsoever. We supposedly just create thoughts and actions out of NOTHING. Or,
[2] We are dumb robots.
Their is no third alternative for them. But here is the alternative truth that is in the
Scriptures and in the real work-a-day world. We have no free choice or free will
which is not caused by anything, as such a fabled idea is not only unscriptural, but
also a physiological impossibility. But........BUT, the alternative is not that we are
then "dumb robots." No, a thousand times, NO. We are intelligent. A person can
be intelligent and yet not have free will. We can think. A person can think and
yet not have free will. We can plan, think spacially, create, imagine, analyze and
manipulate difficult numbers and concepts, and WE CAN LEARN. I do not believe
that we shall ever build such robots as ourselves, and even if we did, we would have
to conclude that it was OUR INTELLIGENCE that built them, and they still would
not have free will or free choice either.
The fact that our choices are caused by some factor does not turn us into robots. And
because we are highly complicated and intelligent, it is God's purpose for us to experience evil and then learn from it and choose to do good. Suffering the pain of making bad decisions or being Judged by God for making bad decisions is a GOOD thing, not a bad.
Certainly we do not punish a robot if it malfunctions, but robots don't have hearts and minds and consciences to direct them or give them guilt when they do wrong. Humans are highly developed mechanisms, organisms, creatures, etc., plus we have a spirit at our core. Something that no robot will ever have It is right and good that God should judge us
for doing bad things from our hearts and minds within. Ask God to continue opening your mind to these difficult concepts.
God be with you,
Ray
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3095.0.html -------
we are billions of times more complex than "puppets" or "atomatons." You fail to see that we LEARN. We have the ability to accumulate, process data, AND LEARN. That God puts us in the situations necessary to accomplish this is no sin.
We "train" our little children by our SUPERIOR POWER AND KNOWLEDGE, and we in fact, FORCE (if you want to use a strong word) our will upon them, by LOVINGLY TEACHING them right from wrong. And thankfully, THEY DO LEARN, and that is no sin on our part for having superior knowledge, wisdom, and power to enforce our will on theirs in this learning process. We ARE God's children.
You are fighting the Scriptures and the laws of physics. There are NO uncaused effects anywhere in the universe except in the deceived minds of carnal-minded men. Listen to my Bible Study from Sunday on our Forum. It is on "free will."
God be with you,
Ray
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php?topic=253.msg2134#msg2134 ---
It is within the carnal mind to do ALL the evils of the universe, and that is why carnal-minded people do such things.
Ask yourself what kinda of a God would allow YOU to be led to these same crimes of eating your own children? PEOPLE rape little girls, not God! Some people WANT to rape little girls. Others just want to DECEIVE their fellow brothers and sisters into thinking that they are powerful, or great, or spiritual, or wise, or loving, etc., but are just as evil inside as Adolph Hitler. Given the opportunity we would have all been Calvin and Hitler. But is it necessary? Yes, it is necessary. Do we think that God is playing a game?
I once placed a board across a little stream that I crossed going to school in the first grade. However, laying a board accross San Francisco Bay is a bit more involved. Creating a cat that will sit and purr on your lap is one thing, but creating creatures into the very IMAGE OF GOD HIMSELF, is quite another. Even the miracle of the Golden Gate Bridge compared to a wooden board cannot compare to what we see now and what we will be when God is through with us.
It takes incredible powers of good and evil to accomplish this. Christians cannot justify God's use of evil, and hence attribute it to what they preceive to be a greater force than God--SATAN. Supposedly God doesn't want evil, but He just can't stop Satan. Nonsense. Read my site. I told you it is a large subject.
Ray
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2721.0.html --------
God CREATED evil (Isa. 45:6) and God USES evil all day long. Evil has no moral bias. Evil means to crush to pieces irrespective of any emotion. Men, of course, SIN when they use evil against another. God never sins when He uses evil.
It is part of the very purpose of our existence to "experience evil." "...It is an EXPERIENCE OF EVIL Elohim [God] has given to the sons of humanity to humble them by it" (Ecc. 1:12). Name me one virtue that is not the direct result of overcoming some form of evil? Sorry, but I have hundreds of unanswered emails ahead of yours. Read the material on our site for the details. Read my four-part series "The Myth of Free Will Exposed" in Installment 15 of my "Lake of Fire" series near the top of our home page.
God be with you,
Ray
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