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Being Not of this World

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Jackie Lee:
Eileen, I was thinking the exact thing, the people would be worse no work at all.
This could be their means of survival, I would imagine they are happy to get a paycheck.

Beloved:
I think that you and some other members may be suffering from a really bad case of Affluenza, this is an affliction and a  movement that started awhile back. It is absolutely not religious .....but a socio-political movement. 

It is does profess some truths (waste greed etc), but they are wrapped in many lies and deceptions (guilt socialism, spread the wealth). Don't think that the people that promote these ideas do not have political and social agendas.  They most certainly do.

Yes the 'world" has these problems...but you are wrong it is not the western world...have you taken a good look at the caste system in India...the communist world of Cuba and China...these were poor but never the less mean hearted toward one class of their people.  Each culture has this...the haves and the have nots. 

There is nothing new under the sun.....vanity vanity....written by the richest man in all of Judea.

Regarding the wilderness....

Hagar, not Sarah was sent to the wilderness

The 12 tribes wandered in the wilderness for 40 years as punishment.

Act 13:18  And about the time of forty years suffered he their manners in the wilderness.

Rev 12:6  And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

Rev 17:3  So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet colored beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.

Heb 3:8  Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:

1Co 10:5  But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness

Re John the Baptist, if your read history, you would find that the Sadducee's replaced or rather bought their positions as priests and assisted in the annihilation of the Aaronic priests...John's father was one...who knows what persecutions that occurred.

At any rate read Isaiah
(Isa 40:3)  A voice is crying--in a wilderness--Prepare ye the way of Jehovah, Make straight in a desert a highway to our God.

There are no commas in Greek or Hebrew...so
it is those who are in the "wilderness" who  needed to turn around and face the way of God and make a straight course to God.

Regarding John and revelations, if you read the translations of many of the early church fathers, John is hardly mentioned in these but Paul and Peter were, even though John was still much alive. Read john letters, remember that he was a "son of thunder", do you think he sat quietly when the false leaven creeped into the early church.   Paul saw it too and wrote about it but was more assimilated into greek/Roman culture. 

John was shunned by the people who were taking over the church. These are the same people who later came up with the trinity and persecuted the followers of Christ. They are the ones who changed te sabbath to Sunday (which even the catholic church readily admits this) so they could distant themselves from those Jewish Christians who believed everone would be saved and lived the life after Christ. It was all about power and money.

You are right the scriptures are multileveled. Remember that they are inspired words of God to every age and to every individual.

Remember if you decide to live in the wilderness....like the steward that was given a talent....you may not be investing it...but keeping it under the bushel basket....supposedly safe.

Regarding affluenza see part 6 of the PBS video on you tube, you can address some of the problems that you are concerned with at least on a personal level.

My advise, if you are inclined ....study for a career, then get a job , live frugally.... if you do ....then ....you will have both time and money to persue the works of God either locally or abroad.

I think this movement is much like the green movement and is similar to the nuclear bomb and the peace movement that we grew up with .....all fear mongers aimed at the youth......the powers and principalities like these.......so you will not REST in God.

Regarding the beast.... read the 17th century John Dunne
No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. If a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe is the less, as well as if a promontory were, as well as if a manor of thy friend's or of thine own were: any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee (Devotions upon Emergent Occasions, #17).


No man is capable of doing this...when .heor /his beast... is on the throne....thinking that he is capable of deciding what is good and evil ....and he will not recognize that only God is righteous and .....only He can do this.


beloved

smeacham:
Wow, beloved.  Just wow.

Ninny:
Amen! Well said!
Kathy :)

Dave in Tenn:
Shane, if you're still reading this thread I won't bother you any more...after this.  Beloved's post and quote of John Donne moved me to attempt another stab.

I ask your pardon for assuming things not fully in evidence (namely your allegiance to or having been influenced by a movement such as Beloved described, or similar).  I still believe it's true, but I may have jumped down your throat a little too hastily or forcefully.  Still, you said you liked the 'fools, hypocrites, snakes' article, and I talk with my best friends with harder words at times.   ;D

I prepared this for you this evening, and I tried very hard not to press any particular socio-economic or political points or viewpoints, as it is simply facts and a bit of direction you both sought and need.  I hope this helps.

You're quotes are in italics.

I'm talking about the fact that, here in the United States of America, we import pretty much everything available on the shelves. Why? It can be made cheaper in other countries.
 Why can it be made cheaper? Because these specific countries lack labor laws allowing the creation of literal wage slaves.

Come on, now...LITERAL wage slaves?  Literal slave wages are zero, zip, nada.   

Children work for hours on end for as little as 50 cents an hour.

I assume you mean in other countries.  Where else in the world do employers pay employees in US Dollars or fractions of Dollars?  Maybe in some farflung US protectorate, but not in any of the countries you'd commonly see on the 'made in...' label..

Why is that important?  Because when workers are paid in the currency of their home country, it relates to a piece of their domestic economy.
I'll give you an example with Thailand, a country I am somewhat familiar with., and an exporter to the West.  Thailand is neither 3rd world or 1st world, but is considered a Developing Nation.  There is wealth in Thailand, and there is poverty, but there isn't extreme poverty to the point of starvation.  Thailand is neither Switzerland nor Chad.

The Currency in Thailand is the Thai Baht.  Everybody uses it, even tourists.

When I first became interested in Thailand, the Baht was exchanged for the USD at about 25 Bt to the $.  A teacher in Thailand (Thai, not a foreigner working in a language school) makes about 6000 Baht a month.  You can figure that into 'hours', but it would have taken $240 USD to exchange for that much Thai money.

Note the way I phrased that--to EXCHANGE.  Two-hundred-forty USD did not EQUAL 6000 Baht.  Why not?  Because one currency is related to the American economy (traded in the world) and the other is related to the Thai economy (traded in the world).

What does that mean?  In Thailand that teacher in a medium income profession is making Thai money and spending it in Thailand.  That teacher can rent a decent apartment for 1500 Baht a month.  (that would have exchanged for 60 Dollars).  She can eat three meals a day at small vendors and restaraunts (the preferred eating style of Thai) for about 100-120 Baht. (that would exchange for 4 or 5 USD a day)...much cheaper if she cooks it herself.

Everything she buys (that isn't an import or heavily taxed) is cheaper.  Could a typical American live on 240 Dollars a month?  Of course not, unless they were 'off the grid'.  But she can.  And unless she is educated in international stree-level economics, she doesn't even KNOW how little her Baht would 'buy' in the US.  And why should she care?  She's living in Thailand.

Exchange rates between currencies fluctuate--almost continuously.  A few years ago, the Thai baht was exchanging with the USD at about 40 Baht to the $.  That same teacher's salary could then only be exchanged for about 150 USD.  Did she get a cut in pay?  Of course not.  She's not making dollars, she's making Baht.

So I hope you can see it is grossly factually inaacurate to say that this child is making 50 cents an hour.  He or she is making not even the equivelant of 50 cents an hour.  He or she is making in their home currency what they could exchange for 50 cents.  And in countries poorer than Thailand, unless there are shortages, basic living common in that economy would be even less expensive than in Thailand.

So your statement is not 'fact', but an agendized factoid learned ultimately from someone(s) with an opinion.  Research the country where the worker ""makes 50 cents an hour"" and try to learn what that means in buying power in their own economy.  Tourist brochures don't count.  ;)  Go to official sources that do not insert opinion.

Related note, it wasn't all that long ago in the US when workers made 50 cents an hour and less.  Gas was 15 cents a gallon, a loaf of bread was a nickle, yada, yada, yada...everything your grandparents could tell you.  You could live on much less because things cost much less.  Why did they cost less--or rather why does it take more dollars now?  Partly it's because of  increased expectation, but mostly its because the money we make today is a much smaller part of the domestic economy due to inflation.  Inflation is not a rise in prices...inflation is a decrease in the value of the currency.  It just LOOKS like a rise in prices.
 
Children work for hours on end for as little as 50 cents an hour.  Our lifestyles' are impossible without suffering throughout the world. 
 
Do some hard thinking on where those children and their families might be if  they didn't have that income.  What is it you would deny them materially if there are no other options for them?  Like that Thai teacher, have you spoken to them (or researched their situation) to see whether they are content with their current lot?  Can you offer an alternative?

Is there room for political and economic justice in the world?  Of course there is.  But your escape will do absolutely nothing to bring it about.  Since you have eschewed revolution (rightly) then consider hard what you can do.  It will include a whole host of things--except what you can't do.
   
The change inside me is happening and my compassion swells for my neighbors all over the planet.
 
Feelings, schmeelings.  Worthless if either the motivation or the action doesn't spring out of Truth.  You liked the article about the harsh words of Jesus to the Pharisees and scribes.  That's what characterized their lives--bad motivation and worthless action.   

How will they know us? By our love? That's what Christ said.

We don't have love greater than God is.

I said hard-nosed and informed in another post.

Rom 5:8 ...God is commending this love of His to us, seeing that, while we are still sinners, Christ died for our sakes.

1 Timothy 1:15  Faithful is the saying, and worthy of all welcome, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, foremost of whom I am.

Do you see 'informed' in those?  Might that be a good pattern for you?

I'm wondering, Dave, what exactly happens after this change inside occurs?

That's a challenging question, and in specifics your answer will be different from mine.  For all of us, it's like this:

Php 2:9.10  Wherefore also, God highly exalts him (Christ) and graces Him with a name that is above every name, that in the name of Jesus every knee should be bowing , celestial and terretrial, and subterranean, and every tongue should be acclaiming that Jesus Christ is Lord, for the glory of God, the Father.

You're in there too.  You're acclaiming (acknowledging and agreeing fully) that Jesus Christ is Lord.  Jesus is Lord.  That's what happens when your heart changes.       

Anyways...I'm not your lord, and neither are you.   :)  I don't want to see your feelings, or some social movement or ideology, or peer pressure, or your religious convictions, or anything short of the Lordship of Christ move you to such drastic steps--especially when I don't believe you have all the facts.  And most especially before you know the truth about yourself and the Sovereign God.

To do such a rash action for no good reason would be foolish.  To do it (or anything) with an impure motive would only be it's own reward, and that's such a pitiful exchange for such a large decision.

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