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Author Topic: Banned...  (Read 4570 times)

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  • Guest
« on: June 01, 2006, 12:07:12 AM »

I got banned from Carm board forums today for posting this thread.

THis was what matt slick said to me in a an email. I was given no prior warning just insta ban.

"From :  matt slick <>
Sent :  Wednesday, May 31, 2006 8:48 PM
To :  <>
Subject :  universalism
  |  |  | Inbox
Universalism is NOT to be promoted in any way on the CARM boards, per the rules.


Therefore, you’re banned.


Matt slick"

Well, we all know they cannot stand the truth, here is the link to the thread so you can all see for yourself.

Ok thought id share how blind they are to the truth.

God bless,



  • Guest
« Reply #1 on: June 01, 2006, 02:23:22 AM »

Boy today have i seen that the truth is not tolerated differently then i ever have.

My friends are pretty much turning on me because of what i tell them, even if i show them the scripture they go off in this own world of theres, or im quoting out of context, etc...

Then at carm being banned, and now both my psots were edited and they say nothing on them... ugh..

Now i feel alone lol, Gods truth is truly not accepted.. this is hard................................................................................ :/


  • Guest
« Reply #2 on: June 01, 2006, 02:58:30 AM »

could it be maybe...just maybe God does not want you wasting anymore of your time with swine.

polish those pearls to were, they come to you and ask of you, how you got your pearls so shiny.

Food for thought....



  • Guest
« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2006, 03:16:36 AM »

Mat 7:6  Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.  :wink:  

A lesson I've had to learn.


  • Guest
« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2006, 04:09:11 AM »

A lesson i have learned, perhaps not in its entirety, but the Lord has shown me exactly what you have all said. Truly a shame to watch the truth get trampled upon :/

Thanks guys..

God bless,



  • Guest
« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2006, 04:12:32 AM »

what did you post anyways. they edited it :?:


  • Guest
« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2006, 04:19:12 AM »

Its nothing new that you already don't know, its all in rays articles or in the bible as id like to emphasize ;)
Quote from: SCH
Greetings InHisName!

Thanks for the post! I agree, the meat of the word is not easy for some to swallow. Actually, there are many who choke on the milk as well and some who completely refuse to even drink it so to speak.

Can you clarify this statement please? The way you wrote it leaves me a bit confused on what you are implying.


Very well i will clarify.

Please before you read this, Pray for the Eyes and Ears to understand the THINGS OF THE SPIRIT.

" Romans 3:11B

Keep in mind also what i said, about Jesus Christ. All is fullfilled In HIM. Jesus IS the BEGINING and the END along with everything in the middle of it.

I will start by Describing the Lake of FIRE and what exactly it is and God does to those who don't believe, and then move on to the Jesus's mission to finish it.

Here we go, God be with me, with us all:

"For the creature [and/or creation itself] was MADE subject to VANITY NOT WILLINGLY, but by reason of Him [that’s God] Who HATH SUBJECTED the same in hope. Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the BONDAGE OF CORRUPTION into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For we know that the WHOLE CREATION groans and travails IN PAIN until NOW" (Rom. 8:20-22)!

Secondly, Jesus SPOKE ONLY IN PARABLES TO THE CROUDS. He later explained what He was teaching behind closed doors to His disciples.

ALL these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in PARABLES; and without a parable speak He NOT unto them" (Matt. 13:34).

What Jesus said has extremely deep spiritual meaning, but it is not LITERAL remember that.

"It is the SPIRIT that quickens [gives life]; the FLESH PROFITS NOTHING: the words that I speak unto you, they are SPIRIT, and they are life" (John 6:63)

Perhaps this will help understand the weeping of gnashing and teeth.

"…cast into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth" (Matt. 13:42-43).

What Jesus is talking about is the SECOND DEATH. THE LAKE OF FIRE.

"…Let God be TRUE [Who says He "WILL save ALL MANKIND"], but every man a LIAR [who says He WILL NOT "save ALL MANKIND"]!

"And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire" (Rev. 20:14-15) and "But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone: which is the second death," (Rev. 21:8).

So even death and hell[Hades/Shoel] will be cast into this Lake of fire. What is it? It is GOD. God is the FIRE. He will burn out all INPURITIES OUT OF EVERY SINGLE PERSON.

"Beloved, think it NOT STRANGE concerning the FIERY trial which is to try you, as though some STRANGE thing happened unto you" (I Pet. 4:12).

"I indeed baptize you with water unto REPENTANCE: but He that comes after me is mightier than I, Whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: He shall baptize you with the Holy Spirit, AND WITH FIRE" (Matt. 3:11).

"For EVERY ONE [sinner and saint] shall be salted with FIRE" (Mark 9:49).

That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perishes, though it [your faith] be TRIED IN THE FIRE, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ" (I Pet. 1:7).

"Every man’s work [including believers] shall be made manifest; for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed BY FIRE, and the FIRE shall try every man’s work of what sort it is. If any man’s work abide which he has built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but HE HIMSELF SHALL BE SAVED; YET SO AS BY FIRE" (I Cor. 3:13-15).

"And of the angels He says, Who makes His angels spirits, and His ministers a flame of FIRE"(Heb. 1:7).

"Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing you shall heap coals of FIRE on his head" (Rom. 12:20).

"But who may abide the day of His coming? And who shall stand when He appears? For He is like a refiner’s FIRE, and like fullers’ soap" (Malachi 3:2).

Remmember Matt, it said in the FURNACE OF FIRE there will be wailing and gnasshing of teeth. Look who is that Furnace, look at who IS THE FIRE.

"From above has He sent FIRE into my bones…" (Lamentations 1:13).

"Is not My word like as a FIRE? saith the Lord" (Jer. 23:29).

"For in My jealousy and in the FIRE of My wrath have I spoken" (Ezek. 38;19).

"…for all the earth shall be devoured with the FIRE of my jealousy" (Zeph. 3:8).

"For our God is a CONSUMING FIRE!"(Heb. 12:29)!


And are these non-believers judged differently from believers who are "revealed, tried, salted and baptized IN FIRE?" Just HOW are these non-believers judged in the book of Revelation? How are the "...fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars..." JUDGED? Answer: "... In the lake WHICH BURNS WITH FIRE ..." (Rev. 21:8)!

I hope you are starting to see a deeper SPIRITUAL understanding to what Gods FIRE is really about, and what the lake which burns with FIRE is all about.

Now this ties all in with Jesus's mission.

"Who will have all men to be saved, and to come into the KNOWLEDGE of the truth" (I Tim. 2:4).

Jesus didn't come to save a small group of sinners, that is only a small part of it.

"And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent [Gk: apostello, to send out on a mission—commission] TO BE THE SAVIOUR OF THE WORLD"(I John 4:14)

Maybe God doesn’t want the whole world to be saved?

"Who WILL have all men to be saved" (I Tim. 2:4).

Second witness:

"For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, Who is the Saviour of ALL MEN, especially [but not exclusively] of those who believe" (I Tim. 4:10).

Doesn’t God will that most of humanity will eternally perish in the lake of fire?

"The Lord…is NOT WILLING that ANY should perish [eternally]…" (II Peter. 3:9).

"And I, if I be lifted up [on the cross] from the earth, will draw ALL MEN UNTO ME" (John 12:32).

But doesn’t the whole world need first to have their sins atoned for?

"And He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for our’s only, but also for THE SINS OF THE WHOLE WORLD" (I John 2:2).

Second witness:

"The next day John sees Jesus coming unto him, and says, Behold the Lamb of God, which TAKES AWAY THE SIN OF THE WORLD" (John 1:29).

Hasn’t the Church proven by their interpretation of the "lake of fire" that it is "impossible" to save all mankind?

"Who then CAN be saved? But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE"

Isn’t it up to each individual to "CHOOSE CHIRST" in order to be saved?

"You have NOT CHOSEN ME, but I have CHOSEN YOU…" (John 15:16).

But didn’t Billy Graham say at one of his crusades that "we must come to Christ all on our own?" To not even pray for those making that decision, because that decision to "come to Christ" must be theirs and THEIRS ALONE?

"NO MAN CAN COME TO ME [by his own free will choice] except the Father which has sent me DRAW HIM [Greek: DRAG HIM] and I WILL raise him up at the last day" (John 6:44).

Are you telling me that I never did seek God ON MY OWN?

"There is NONE that seeks after God" (Rom. 3:11b).

See Second Witness in Psalm 14:2.

But what if I believe that I can and I do WILL to serve God on my own.

"For it is GOD which works IN you both TO WILL and TO DO of His good pleasure" (Phil. 2:13).

Well I know for a fact that it says in Heb. 11:6 that without faith it is impossible to please God, so surely we must work up our OWN FAITH in order to please God?

"For by grace are ye saved through FAITH; and that [that ‘FAITH’] is NOT OF YOURSELVES [well where does it come from then, if not from US?]; it is the GIFT OF GOD" (Eph. 2:8).

Second Witness:

"…and what have you that you did not RECEIVE….?" (I Cor. 4:7).

But surely everyone will have to acknowledge the RISEN Jesus Christ as their Lord and their Jesus [Jehovah-SAVIOUR] before they can ever be saved, so when does that happen?

"That at the name of Jesus [Jehovah-Saviour—THEIR Saviour] EVERY knee should bow, in heaven, and in earth, and under the earth; and that EVERY tongue should confess [‘That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God has raised Him from the dead, THOU SHALT BE SAVED, Rom. 10:9)] that Jesus Christ [The Christ that God ‘raised from the dead.’ Christ was already ‘RISEN’ when this was written in Phil. 2:11] is Lord [‘Lord’ means ‘master’—acknowledging Christ as Master of their lives], to the glory of God the Father" (Phil. 2:10-11).

"To wit that God was in Christ, reconciling THE WORLD unto Himself, NOT imputing [reckoning] THEIR TRESPASSES [SINS] AGAINST THEM" (II Cor. 5:19).

"For THIS is GOOD AND ACCEPTABLE in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have ALL men [What percentage? Five percent? Fifty percent?] ALL men to be saved..." (I Tim. 2:3-4).

But doesn’t this sound like ALL that we do to be saved is OF GOD, and not of ourselves?

"God is operating ALL in all" (I Cor. 12:6)

"Yet ALL is of God" (II Cor. 5:18)

"For OF Him, and THROUGH Him, and TO Him, ARE ALL THINGS: to Whom be glory for ever. Amen" (Rom. 11:34)

"…being predestinated according to the purpose of Him Who works ALL THINGS after the counsel of His OWN WILL" (Eph. 1:11).

This almost sounds like we can do absolutely NOTHING on our own to bring about our own salvation.

"I am the vine, you are the branches … for without me you can do NOTHING" (John 15:5).

Now you might say to yourself, Well God is just repeating this over and over because He just wishes it would happen, or He just wants it to happen but Hes not gonna force it too happen. Lets let scripture tell us, and its quit contrary to what you believe of this "free will".

Remember the former things of old: for I am GOD, and there is none else; I am GOD, and there is none like Me. Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel SHALL STAND, and WILL DO ALL MY PLEASURE [as in I Tim. 2:4 and everywhere else]:

Calling a ravenous bird from the east [Cyrus?], the man that executes my counsel [just as the king of Assyria] from a far country: yea, I have SPOKEN IT [as in I Tim. 2:4 and everywhere else] I WILL ALSO BRING IT TO PASS [as also in saving all mankind]; I have PURPOSED IT [as also in saving all mankind] I WILL ALSO DO IT" (Isaiah 46:9-11).

"So shall my WORD be that goes forth OUT OF MY MOUTH [just as in I Tim. 2:4 and everywhere else] it shall NOT return into me void, but it SHALL ACCOMPLISH THAT WHICH I PLEASE, and it SHALL PROSPER IN THE THING WHERETO I SENT IT" (Isaiah 55:11).

"God is NOT a man, that He should LIE [do we think God LIES when He says that He WILL save all mankind in I Tim. 2:4?]; neither the son of man, that He should repent: hath He said, and shall He not DO IT? Or has He spoken [as in I Tim. 2:4 and many other places], and shall He not MAKE IT GOOD?" (Numbers 23:19).

Well? Those of you who contend with your Maker: "Hath God SAID" in I Tim. 2:4 that He "WILL have all men to be saved?" Well then, "SHALL HE NOT DO IT?" (Num. 23:19). Has "He [God] SPOKEN" in I Tim. 2:4 and many other places, that He "…WILL have all men to be saved?" Well then, "…shall He NOT MAKE IT GOOD?" (Num. 23:19).

All these Scriptures make it sound as if the Church has many worship practices that are nothing but the philosophies, commandments, and traditions of men rather than Scripture.

"Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men…Full well you reject the commandments of God, [like: ‘LOVE YOUR ENEMIES’] that you may keep your OWN TRADITION" (Mark 7:7 & 9).
I pray you are starting to see that GODS FIRE, PURIFIES and DOES NOT TORTURE in an eternal Hell hole of terrorist fire. It is a SPIRITUAL CLEANSING, God will save everyone, because whatever He simply WISHES HE will do, Jesus Christ IS THE SAVIOR OF THE WORLD not half of it, not 1/4 of it, not  1/10 of it not even 9/10 of it BUT ALL OF IT. God is the very reason people believe, and why some don't!

"the God of this world (age - aion) hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them" (II Cor. 4:4).

"God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day" (Rom. 11:8).

"And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: (II Thess 2:11)

Our God is truly awsome and amazing when you start to dig for His riches, and see just how deep they truly are. I pray that He gives you(Each and everyone of you) EYES AND EARS to hear the Things of the spirit. This is much meat that most cannot swallow, pray is all i can tell you.

God will and God bless,


"For to be carnally minded is DEATH; but to be spiritually minded is LIFE and peace" (Rom. 8:6).


My second responce was more along the lines of the carnal being death, and the spiritual being life, and how we are to compare spiritual with spiritual, and that Jesus words are SPIRIT and that PARABLES ARE NOT LITERAL. Matt slick was making a huge point about the parables and how there literal. Yet Jesus words are SPIRIT and we compare SPIRITUAL WITH SPIRITUAL not SPIRITUAL WITH PHYSICAL.

Thus i was banned.

God bless,


Origen II

  • Guest
« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2006, 04:55:09 AM »

I wrote a post on the CARM message boards to Matt Slick, personally:

First off, I just want to say that I used to frequent this forum under another alias and that this place influenced me to become an Apologist. For that, I am grateful to Matt and his work.

However, as I have no become a Universalist a little while ago, I have noticed certain things: Matt's hatred of Universalism and it's proponents. I don't know how to put this Matt, but I really respect you and your work, but I cannot seem to understand how you label Universalist and how you take a "no tolerance" policy to them even being here.

Anyone who even mentions that they may believe in Universalism you automatically ban from the forum, no matter what type of person they are. And this is all due to a bad experience you had with a select group long ago, whom threatened to kill you and whatnot. While I am appauled at such things they promoted and said, I am just as equally appauled at the fact that you group the rest of us in with that group, as though we are no better than the Satanist. You say we "undermine the Gospel" and that we are filled with hate and not love.

Well I find this to be a bigoted look at who we are. Not only is it false that we "undermine the Gospel", because I don't see how we can undermine the Gospel if we promote the fact that it was BECAUSE Christ died on the cross that made it possible for all to be saved, not the other way around, but I also find it false that you would basically make the rest of us out to be no better than Satanist and the Universalist you had to deal with before.

I feel so offended that I'm almost in shock. I see no reason for we Universalist to be banned or treated with such disrespect. It's simply prejudice. It's like saying "all black people are bad" because you had a bad experience with a black person or something. Seriously.

Many of my brothers in Christ who believe in Universal salvation are saddedned by the fact that you simply ban them for expressing their opinions on the matter. They neither curse, nor try to offend anyone, yet they are banned and shushed simply because of who they are.

One of my good friends who attends Tentmaker (I am not a part of the orginization myself, but I do know him and he's not one to try and kill people) sent you an email and you returned with this:

"I know the arguments. You can thank your friends at tentmaker for the evil and satanic treatment (in the name of "love") for my utter disdain for the deceptive and counter-gospel lie known as universalism.

It is banned here because of their filthly approach, their lies, their accusations, and their ungodly attitudes. It is banned because it undermines the gospel.

You don't know as much as you think you do.

Only satanists have treated me worse than the unies.

Got that? only SATANISTS have been worse than the universalists -- and they have threatened to kill my family. So, go back and ask your unie buddies about their hypocrisy and their false witness. Ask them how they are "loving" and "kind"... yeah...

Don't start it here.

btw, unies can be Christians only in their ignorance as many can be saved and be ignorant of proper doctrines. But, to retain the lie and purposely attack those who affirm the biblical doctrine of eternal damnation, is to provide evidence of being unregenerate.

Don't try and be covert."

I mean. Does this include every Universalist, because it appears so? This in no way proves that you are "loving your enemies" or loving everyone at all. In fact it's the total opposite.

You may hate the fact that I'm saying this to you, but need to realize that not everyone is perfect. You make mistakes too...and this attitude of yours towards I and my brethren because of a previous groups mistakes and misrepresentation of who we are is totally wrong. It's like saying all Muslims are terrorist, or that all Christians hate jews.

I put this in the suggestion section so that perhaps you would read it and take it as a suggestion.

Please stop your bias towards Universalist and treat us like everyone else. We aren't like those people you saw before. Just like not all Muslims are terrorist and just like not all Jews are bankers. You're making prejudice statements and accusations that are offensive and cruel, and regardless of what others did to you before does not justify you in doing the same.

Please consider. I am not going to sugar coat this message to appease you. I will only speak the truth. Think I'm a covert or whatever, I don't care. You are not justified in not allowing and even judging/condemning Universalist simply because of your small experience.

Though I sincerly apologize on their behalf, do not put I or others in the same category. We don't appreciate that. Not merely as Universalist who follow Christ, but as human beings.

Thank you.


  • Guest
« Reply #8 on: June 01, 2006, 09:58:22 AM »

(Job 12:22)  He uncovereth deep things out of darkness, And bringeth out to light the shadow of death.

(Job 17:12)  They change the night into day: The light, say they, is near unto the darkness.

(Psa 11:2)  For, lo, the wicked bend the bow, They make ready their arrow upon the string, That they may shoot in darkness at the upright in heart;

(Psa 82:5)  They know not, neither do they understand; They walk to and fro in darkness: All the foundations of the earth are shaken.

(Psa 112:4)  Unto the upright there ariseth light in the darkness: He is gracious, and merciful, and righteous.

(Isa 45:19)  I have not spoken in secret, in a place of the land of darkness; I said not unto the seed of Jacob, Seek ye me in vain: I, Jehovah, speak righteousness, I declare things that are right.

(Joh 3:19)  And this is the judgment, that the light is come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the light; for their works were evil.

(1Th 5:5)  for ye are all sons of light, and sons of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness;

I think we all must learn by experience, to be careful where we cast our pearl.  Some take light for darkness and darkness for light.  God has them blind and it will take God to heal them.

God bless,



  • Guest
« Reply #9 on: June 01, 2006, 01:10:11 PM »

I just signed up with CARM so I could post the following. It will be interesting to see what kind of response I get:

Quote from: JohnStephenson
And if your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; it is better for you to enter life crippled or lame, than having two hands or two feet, to be cast into the eternal fire.  And if your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out, and throw it from you. It is better for you to enter life with one eye, than having two eyes, to be cast into the fiery hell.[/i] (Matthew 18:8-9).

I just joined this forum and would appreciate it if someone could answer this question: Jesus says for us to cut off our hands and feet and pluck out our eyes if they offend us, so why hasn't anyone ever done this? :confused: Surely some Christian, at one time or another, has found him/herself doing things, going places, and looking at things that were sinful!


  • Guest
« Reply #10 on: June 01, 2006, 03:03:57 PM »


Just a thought, I don't think that scripture is talking about the physical body.  God wants us to lead our body about as a slave, not lop off literal body parts.  But the body of sin within us, is to be killed and destroyed.  Two sources are trying to kill and destroy our life.  God and Satan.  Satan wants us to die by returning to the curse of sin and death.  And God wants us to die to our self by crucifying our flesh that He might raise us up with His life or life abundant which is Christ being formed in you.

ROM 6:6  Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.  

There is a future tense 'walking out' process spoken of in this verse IMO.  If we're still serving sin in an area of our life then we have not yet crucified that part of our 'self'.

A woman can wear a dress that goes all the way to the floor and all the way to her chin...and still be filled with lust.  When we are told to circumcize our hearts does that mean get a physical knife out?  I pray to God you answer this question right Sandy?  :wink:


  • Guest
« Reply #11 on: June 01, 2006, 03:07:45 PM »

oh no...
i see a communication error !!

sandyfla was saying that she put that "question" out there to see if others out there understand the real meaning..... like you lightseeker...

(thought i'd jump in there!)


  • Guest
« Reply #12 on: June 01, 2006, 03:13:00 PM »

Quote from: Becky
oh no...
i see a communication error !!

sandyfly was saying that she put that "question" out there to see if others out there understand the real meaning..... like you lightseeker...

(thought i'd jump in there!)

You got it, Becky!

I know Jesus wasn't talking about physically cutting off our hands/feet and plucking out our eyes. It's just that the second part of the verse talks about being cast into hell. My point being, if people believe the "hell" part is literal, then they would have to believe "cutting off/plucking out" part is too.

So far, I'm getting nowhere. They're giving me other questions about "becoming like a child," etc. I keep going back to the cutting off/plucking out question. They are avoiding it, just like I knew they would!



  • Guest
« Reply #13 on: June 01, 2006, 03:55:36 PM »

OK, the guy I was corresponding with said the following:

"I believe he was pointing out to them that it is fruitless to try to save oneself. He is pointing out how flimsy their excuses are knowing they would not do what he is saying.
The chapter also deals with not worring about how great you are going to be but just depend on him."

I could go on to argue that if the first part isn't literal, then the part about hellfire isn't either. Also, how he just said anything we do to be saved is "fruitless" and to "just depend on him (Jesus)." Then I could go into an argument about freewill ... but what's the use? They won't see it until God opens their eyes.

I was simply curious to see how they explained it. He said just what I thought he would say.  :(



  • Guest
« Reply #14 on: June 01, 2006, 04:12:07 PM »

Well, ya never know. maybe that verse will get him thinking about the "truth".


  • Guest
« Reply #15 on: June 01, 2006, 04:39:00 PM »

Why do you think Jesus mentioned the "right hand" concerning that body part which caused them to sin?

Ever think about each body part? :lol:  



  • Guest
« Reply #16 on: June 01, 2006, 04:49:48 PM »

ooohhh daniel,
maybe we could start another post on body parts ! i like that topic...its like the numbers!


  • Guest
« Reply #17 on: June 01, 2006, 04:59:04 PM »

Quote from: Becky
ooohhh daniel,
maybe we could start another post on body parts ! i like that topic...its like the numbers!

 :lol:  :lol: That would be interesting Becky.

Heres a right hand :wink:

Isaiah 63:12 That led them by the "right hand" of Moses with his glorious arm, dividing the water before them, to make himself an everlasting name?

John 1:17  For the law was given by Moses[/u], but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

If your right hand causes you to sin?

1Cr 15:56 The power of sin IS the law[/u] :lol:

Gal 3:12 And the law is not of faith:

Mathew 5:30  And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off[/u], and cast it from thee :idea:  for it is "profitable for thee"[/u] that one of thy members should perish[/u], and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.[/u]

Paul speaks of the law "in his members" (that is, "in" the flesh)

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