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JUDE 1:9--Help?
daywalker:
Hey Marques,
WOW! I didn't even think about looking up the Greek Words [idk y?], that clears up a lot! Thanks. Gosh, I forget sometimes how the meaning Scriptures can be altered or hidden by the way a word is translated...
Your explanation was superb! ;) Obviously, Jesus would never "blaspheme". Thanks a bunch! [And yes, I do recall "Antipas", that was an amazing revelation when I read it in Ray's LOF]
I will do more study tonight on this subject. Thanks to everyone who took the time to post. You guys rocK!
- Daywalker. :D
--- Quote from: mharrell08 on February 11, 2009, 06:50:30 AM ---
Daywalker,
A 'railing accusation' is not the same as rebuking. The greek word for 'railing' is blasphēmia, which of course is translated time and again as 'blasphemy', 16 times actually. It is only translated 'railing' one other time which is in 1 Tim 6:4.
1 Tim 6:4 He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings
Now remember the apostles' witness of our Lord:
1 Pet 2:21-22 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:
1 John 3:5 And ye know that he [Christ] was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
Also remember, Christ referred to His Father in Heaven as not only Father, but also God and Lord:
Matt 4:7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.
Matt 4:10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve
Matt 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mark 12:29-30 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment
The greek word for 'accusation' is krisis, which is translated 'judgment', 41 times. It is translated as 'accusation' only one other time, and yep wouldn't you know, in 2 Pet 2:11. This scripture also has the word 'railing' in it, though it is translated from blasphēmos.
2 Pet 2:11 Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord
So 'blasphēmia' which is translated to 'railing' in Jude 1:9 is a feminine noun, according to Strong's concordance. And blasphēmos is translated to 'railing' in 2 Pet 2:11 is an adjective. But both mean to BLASPHEMY, which is something Michael [Gk. 'who is like God'] would not do, seeing our Lord does not speak evil from his mouth.
My personal opinion, and kind of goes along with what Ray hints to in his email, is that 'Michael' may not be a 'name' per se, but a title. Similar to Antipas from Rev 2:13 which means 'Like the Father'.
Excerpt from Lake of Fire series #11 (http://bible-truths.com/lake11.html):
WHO IS ANTIPAS?
"I know your works and where you DWELL, even where SATAN’S SEAT [throne] is: and you hold fast My name, and have not denied My faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr [Gk: ‘witness’], who was slain among you, WHERE SATAN DWELLS" (Rev. 2:13).
But how do we know that this is Jerusalem, and not the literal city of Pergamos to whom this message is addressed?
Because God gives us the same proof as when He tells us that,
"their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, WHERE also our Lord was crucified" (Re. 11:8 ).
And "where" was that? Jerusalem.
Where ever "Antipas" was martyred, is where Satan dwells and has his throne. But just who is Antipas? "Antipas" is not translated. It is the same word in the Greek Manuscripts. It is a compound word: "antee" and "pas." Antee carries the meaning of being ‘in place of another,’ and pas is from pater meaning ‘father.’ And so Antipas is speaking of one who is here in the place of his father. Who might that be?
"I came forth FROM the Father…" (John 16:28).
"Jesus knowing that the Father had given all things into His hands, and that He was come FROM God, and went to God" (John 13:3).
"But now I go My way to Him that SENT ME..." (John 16;5).
"No man has seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is IN THE BOSOM of the Father, he has declared [unfolded or revealed] Him" (John 1:18).
"Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, you would love Me; for I PROCEEDED FORTH AND CAME FROM God; neither came I of Myself, but He sent Me" (John 8:42).
"God… has in these last days SPOKEN UNTO US BY HIS SON…" (Heb. 1-1-2).
It is absolutely Scripturally clear that it is Jesus Christ who came "in the place of" His Father to reveal His Father to us. Jesus Christ is the Antipas.
The phrase "faithful martyr" is a proper translation, however the word translated "martyr" is from the Greek martus and is translated martyr only three times, but is translated "witness" twenty-nine times, for that is what its meaning is—a witness.
So Antipas, has come in the place of the Father. And Antipas is God’s faithful witness. And Who does the Scripture tell us is the "faithful witness" of God? Answer:
"And from JESUS CHRIST, Who IS THE FAITHFUL WITNESS…" (Rev. 1:5).
And Antipas, Jesus Christ, was martyred IN JERUSALEM. Satan’s throne and dwelling place is in JERUSALEM!
Sorry, it's pretty early in the morning...don't know if I put all this in the order I meant. Just PM me if I need to be in more detail. Thanks
Marques
--- End quote ---
smeacham:
I don't know about you others, but THIS is the way I think these forums are supposed to work. Without breaking forum rules in any way, we've helped one another apply principles that HAVE been taught to get a clearer understanding of God's Word.
Well Done!
Steve
aqrinc:
Marques, Kathy, Steve, Kat, Daywalker, Harry,
Buying the field (we have bought the field) now we keep searching for The
Hidden Treasures Put there by Our Lord And Saviour And King Jesus Christ.
Just finished reading the Book of Ruth, all 4 chapters. This thread led me back to those
Scriptures; it would do well for anyone who sees this thread to go and read again.
george ;D
daywalker:
--- Quote from: Steve Meacham on February 11, 2009, 09:57:51 AM ---I don't know about you others, but THIS is the way I think these forums are supposed to work. Without breaking forum rules in any way, we've helped one another apply principles that HAVE been taught to get a clearer understanding of God's Word.
Well Done!
Steve
--- End quote ---
True that, Steve! ;D
That's what sets this forum above every other. That's how I know we're headed the right way.
aqrinc:
These are some of the different definitions from strongs re: Michael.
There may be others but it starts to wander so i only used these.
H4317
מיכאל
mîykâ'êl
me-kaw-ale'
From H4310 and (the prefixed derivation from) H3588 and H410; who (is) like God?; Mikael, the name of an archangel and of nine Israelites: - Michael.
H4310
מי
mîy
me
An interrogitive pronoun of persons, as H4100 is of things, who? (occasionally, by a peculiar idiom, of things); also (indefinitely) whoever; often used in oblique construction with prefix or suffix: - any (man), X he, X him, + O that! what, which, who (-m, -se, -soever), + would to God.
H410
אל
'êl
ale
Shortened from H352; strength; as adjective mighty; especially the Almighty (but used also of any deity): - God (god), X goodly, X great, idol, might (-y one), power, strong. Compare names in “-el.”
H352
איל
'ayil
ah'-yil
From the same as H193; properly strength; hence anything strong; specifically a chief (politically); also a ram (from his strength); a pilaster (as a strong support); an oak or other strong tree: - mighty (man), lintel, oak, post, ram, tree.
H193
אוּל
'ûl
ool
From an unused root meaning to twist, that is, (by implication) be strong; the body (as being rolled together) also powerful: - mighty, strength.
H3588
כּי
kîy
kee
A primitive particle (the full form of the prepositional prefix) indicating causal relations of all kinds, antecedent or consequent; (by implication) very widely used as a relative conjugation or adverb; often largely modified by other particles annexed: - and, + (forasmuch, inasmuch, where-) as, assured [-ly], + but, certainly, doubtless, + else, even, + except, for, how, (because, in, so, than) that, + nevertheless, now, rightly, seeing, since, surely, then, therefore, + (al-) though, + till, truly, + until, when, whether, while, who, yea, yet,
george. :)
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