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Confusing scriptures

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Marlene:
Vangie, I am starting to think like you. Us ones new to this are not at the same place as others. But, we do come in here with questions because our eyes have not been opened about all things. Thats, why they give us  who do not understand scriptures and they take the time to hunt for Ray's articles that talk about questions we have.  As long as they do it with love, and take in to count others are not where they are scriptures are the ony way to make us see. It seems it has been done in love here. I see many people looking for so many things to help us with our blindness. Now, it is up to god to make us see.

But, if we don't see it is not there fault or ours. God is in control of that. But, it seems all was in love in these post. God did open my mind with post from all of them in here. Like Beloved said, Babylon does not see cause they think everyone goes to Heaven upon death. I have always know there has to be ressurection. But, I see where Eileen was coming from. But, the scriptures Marques gave last and email from Ray turned the lights on for me. The dead are in there graves till ressurection, but we have the promise that we will all be living upon ressurection.  So god is god of the living not of the dead.

When, I first joined here I was too worried about the ones in Babylon and how they would be treated. Well, after being taught the Hell Lie. I could not see me with all my flaws even able to go to Heaven. But, a great thing came out of that. God led me to truth. I came in here. He sent me here. I did not come in here by chance. Some things I believed different then Babylon teachings. I never was one much for rituals. As for anyone thinking they were chosen, I for one would never say I am. I don't think any of the others would either

God made me hate the Hell like before I came in here. If, I was not hating Hell , I doubt I would have believed a thing even through the scriptures were there to proof it. I was blind. I still have blind areas. Well, I have said, more then enough. But, glad all put up with the blindness. It teaches them patience with us. But, it also teaches us to be patient with God. They all just hope to see us grow in to maturity. I am growing but have a long ways to go.

In His Love,
Marlene

P.S. When, God showed me my faults. It hurt for sure. But, it was a good hurt. Because, seeing them is what made me wake up.  We are sensitive people.
But, that can be bad too. I just have to remember everyone is not out to get me. But, I also, believe we can beat people up , when they just can't see.
That, is when the moderators come in and say this is enough. I think all for most part have good intentions.

aqrinc:

After reading this thread again i went searching for Scripture to finish and round off the discussion.
1st Corinthians 15: 1-50 is what i found to (as Ray's says) bookend this discussion. It is a long read;
but i included all since when read in it's entirety it makes all the difference for me. Ray has done
extensive work and teaching on this subject; so we can with a bit of work; learn to be well prepared
whenever someone asks us the reason for our Hope.

1Co 15: 1-50 (ESV)
1  Now I would remind you, brothers, of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, in which you stand,
2  and by which you are being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you--unless you believed in vain.
3  For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures,
4  that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures,
5  and that he appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve.
6  Then he appeared to more than five hundred brothers at one time, most of whom are still alive, though some have fallen asleep.
7  Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles.
8  Last of all, as to one untimely born, he appeared also to me.
9  For I am the least of the apostles, unworthy to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.
10  But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace toward me was not in vain. On the contrary, I worked harder than any of them, though it was not I, but the grace of God that is with me.
11  Whether then it was I or they, so we preach and so you believed.
12  Now if Christ is proclaimed as raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead?
13  But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised.
14  And if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is in vain and your faith is in vain.
15  We are even found to be misrepresenting God, because we testified about God that he raised Christ, whom he did not raise if it is true that the dead are not raised.
16  For if the dead are not raised, not even Christ has been raised.
17  And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile and you are still in your sins.
18  Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished.
19  If in Christ we have hope in this life only, we are of all people most to be pitied.
20  But in fact Christ has been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep.
21  For as by a man came death, by a man has come also the resurrection of the dead.
22  For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive.
23  But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ.
24  Then comes the end (consumation), when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power.
25  For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet.
26  The last enemy to be destroyed is death.
27  For "God has put all things in subjection under his feet." But when it says, "all things are put in subjection," it is plain that he (GOD) is excepted who put all things in subjection under him (Jesus Christ).
28  When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will also be subjected to him (GOD) who put all things in subjection under him, that God may be all in all.
29  Otherwise, what do people mean by being baptized on behalf of the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why are people baptized on their behalf?
30  Why are we in danger every hour?
31  I protest, brothers, by my pride in you, which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die every day!
32  What do I gain if, humanly speaking, I fought with beasts at Ephesus? If the dead are not raised, "Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die."
33  Do not be deceived: "Bad company ruins good morals."
34  Wake up from your drunken stupor, as is right, and do not go on sinning. For some have no knowledge of God. I say this to your shame.
35  But someone will ask, "How are the dead raised? With what kind of body do they come?"
36  You foolish person! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies.
37  And what you sow is not the body that is to be, but a bare kernel, perhaps of wheat or of some other grain.
38  But God gives it a body as he has chosen, and to each kind of seed its own body.
39  For not all flesh is the same, but there is one kind for humans, another for animals, another for birds, and another for fish.
40  There are heavenly bodies and earthly bodies, but the glory of the heavenly is of one kind, and the glory of the earthly is of another.
41  There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for star differs from star in glory.
42  So is it with the resurrection of the dead. What is sown is perishable; what is raised is imperishable.
43  It is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness; it is raised in power.
44  It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.
45  Thus it is written, "The first man Adam became a living being"; the last Adam became a life-giving spirit.
46  But it is not the spiritual that is first but the natural, and then the spiritual.
47  The first man was from the earth, a man of dust; the second man is from heaven.
48  As was the man of dust, so also are those who are of the dust, and as is the man of heaven, so also are those who are of heaven.
49  Just as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the man of heaven.
50  I tell you this, brothers: flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.

There is much more, but this will suffice to get the gears turning and sharpen the Sword (Scripture knowledge).

george. :)

judith collier:
O.K. now Luke 20 chap. 38. NOW, God is the God of the dead. How are we alive (ALL) in Christ? This is a pure as pure question as can be. Note, this is a bit different. I hate to argue so never take something I say as arguing but as questioning. If I knew for sure (or thought I was sure) I would just quit and go away, but I am not going anywhere. And I still believe the subject of answering inquiring questions--- hold on, then WHO are you addressing when you put out verses like Mark 4, chap. 11 and 12? I am NOT alone in this and I do KNOW this one.(not being alone in this questioning and answering) Are not these verses put to us(the questioners) These verses insinuate to us (coming from YOU ) (The WORD of GOD USED against the questioners)  and believe me please when I say I am not accusing you but questioning why verses are thrown out implying(?) if we don't get it , it is because we don't see as you do(knowing) and if our eyes were just a bit more opened by God then all will be well and we would agree. Perhaps, could it be maybe the teachers could do better? For every million who believe the same there are another million who believe different. I am striving to understand the tactics here and I would NOT use this method Ever for those who are seeking. I have learned more from people explaining the verses than being hit over the head with them. And I still love all of you, honestly. Judy

mharrell08:

--- Quote from: Judy on February 16, 2009, 01:17:53 AM ---O.K. now Luke 20 chap. 38. NOW, God is the God of the dead. How are we alive (ALL) in Christ? This is a pure as pure question as can be. Note, this is a bit different. I hate to argue so never take something I say as arguing but as questioning. If I knew for sure (or thought I was sure) I would just quit and go away, but I am not going anywhere. And I still believe the subject of answering inquiring questions--- hold on, then WHO are you addressing when you put out verses like Mark 4, chap. 11 and 12? I am NOT alone in this and I do KNOW this one.(not being alone in this questioning and answering) Are not these verses put to us(the questioners) These verses insinuate to us (coming from YOU ) (The WORD of GOD USED against the questioners)  and believe me please when I say I am not accusing you but questioning why verses are thrown out implying(?) if we don't get it , it is because we don't see as you do(knowing) and if our eyes were just a bit more opened by God then all will be well and we would agree. Perhaps, could it be maybe the teachers could do better? For every million who believe the same there are another million who believe different. I am striving to understand the tactics here and I would NOT use this method Ever for those who are seeking. I have learned more from people explaining the verses than being hit over the head with them. And I still love all of you, honestly. Judy

--- End quote ---


Luke 20:38  For he is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him.

1 Cor 15:22  For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

John 5:25-27  Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.

John 6:33&35  For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world...And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life


Judy,

If these and other scriptures given are not helping, perhaps you could begin a new thread. This way you could start from the beginning and explain, in more detail, your question(s).


Hope this helps,

Marques

Kat:

Hi Judy,

Luke 20:38  For He is not the God of the dead but of the living, for all live to Him."

The "dead" in this Scripture I believe is talking about those who are "carnal minded" and do not know Christ.

Rom 8:6  For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

As verse 6 continues we have "life" if we have the spirit of Christ indwelling or as Luke 20:38 says "live to Him."

Well I have more Scripture, but that is the only way I know how to explain truth.

Rom 8:9  But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.

So you see when Christ is indwelling you are considered "in the spirit" - life.

Rom 8:10  And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

So with the spirit of Christ indwelling our fleshly carnal "body" is dead, because... back in verse 9 "you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit."

Rom 8:11  But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.

I think this Scripture passage below will help you also.

Rom 6:1  What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound?
v. 2  Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?
v. 3  Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?
v. 4  Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
v. 5  For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection,
v. 6  knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin.
v. 7  For he who has died has been freed from sin.

This is talking about "died" to the carnal fleshly self, by the indwelling of Christ.

v. 8  Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him,
v. 9  knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him.


mercy, peace and love
Kat

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