> General Discussions
Confusing scriptures
Vangie:
--- Quote from: Judy on February 15, 2009, 03:52:43 AM ---I do not see it. And what I said, I reiterate. Every time someone does not get the same thing you guys do, you revert back to how you are the chosen and all understanding is yours and yours only and only what you see is from God.
--- End quote ---
Judy,
I just do not see what you see, and you seem offended by George and Beloved just offering scripture to clarify and edify the readers of this discussion....(Judy, Eileen, guests, members, myself, and all the others who read here to learn and study and know our Lord through his Word). No one has referred to themselves as "chosen" here in this thread that I see--besides, we cannot know unless we endure to the end. And it's not the "end" yet, at least not for those of us who can read this forum right now, right? ;) None of us will even know if we are chosen until Jesus returns. But until then, we can
2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
John 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
and not let our personal "beast" and carnal mind see offensive things that aren't meant, just because God hasn't turned a particular light bulb on for us that He seems to have flicked the switch for someone else. It's not their fault that they "get" something that we don't get yet. All in God's time, not ours.
Love to you in Christ,
Vangie
EKnight:
Just to set the record straight, I don't have "preconceived" notions nor do I have to "unlearn" anything. I was thoroughly convinced that all are awaiting resurrection until I came across these verses.
It appears (I am not trying to "prove" my point) to me that- 26 Now concerning the dead, that they are being roused; did you not read in the scroll of Moses, at the thorn bush, how God spoke to him, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob?- is trying to validate the fact that people will be raised from the dead. If Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are dead, then He is the God of the dead. But since it clearly states that God is NOT the God of the dead, then I must conclude that Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are not dead.
I have been concentrating on only these verses since I first came across them. I have read them in every translation I could find on both esword and biblegateway. Therefore, this post is not a knee jerk reaction to replies of this thread. I have concluded that it must be a matter of tense, however, I cannot reconcile Abraham, Isaac and Jacob still being dead when they are being referrenced in order to validate that there actually is resurrection of the dead and that God is not the God of the dead but God of the living.
Now, that being said, how can I be certain that it is I who is not being given the eyes to see? (i.e., give me the scriptures that tell us that the resurrection is yet to come)----this is NOT a challenge, it is a request.
This all pertains to Luke 20:37-38. I have not even begun to wrestle with Romans 14:9! I will have to leave that one on the back burner for now.
Thanks for your help.
Eileen
mharrell08:
Email reply from Ray (http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php?topic=2886.0):
Matt.22:32'I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob'[a]? He is not the God of the dead but of the living."
Ray, Doesn't this verse indicate Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob were alive during Jesus incarnation and now? I don't understand how this fits.Thanks so much for any help.
Blessings,
Rob
Dear Bob:
I have answered this question many times. We need to READ all words in
a Scripture, not just gloss over it and think we know what it means.
Matt. 22:23--"...there is NO RESURRECTION...." [The Saducees didn't believe in resurrection].
22:28--"...therefore in THE RESURRECTION...."
22:30--"...For in THE RESURRECTION...."
22:31--"...BUT AS TOUCHING THE RESURRECTION OF THE DEAD...."
22l32--"...God is not the God of the dead, but of the living."
These verses are ALL ABOUT THE RESURRECTION FROM THE DEAD. Concerning "THE
RESURRECTION OF THE DEAD, God is the God of the living. He is not the God of dead people.
God is the God of LIVING PEOPLE. When? IN THE RESURRECTION OF THE DEAD. "Concerning
THE RESURRECTION OF THE DEAD, [that's how] God is the God of the living.,
God be with you,
Ray
Marques
EKnight:
Aaahh Marques, you beat me to it. I found this as well. I think I may have gained a better understanding in the last five minutes. But I guess it doesn't hurt to bring something up again that obviously others have wrestled with in the past and will probably continue to wrestle with in the future.
Eileen
God of the Living
« on: May 26, 2008, 05:35:50 PM »
I was asked where I was going to go when I died. Since I am a reader of the truths revealed to you I said I was going to the grave to await my change. This was through e-mail correspondance I was sent back these following scriptures and don't how to respond to them due to mylack of knowledge could you please help.
Matt-22:32, Mark 12:26,27, Luke 20:37,38. If you could i would be grayeful.
I know of your affliction and you are in my prayers daily for the Lords will be done
Bud
Dear Bud: Understand something up front: Those who worship the damnable heresies (II Pet. 2:1) of the pagan Greeks and Egyptians--immortal soul, depart to a heaven or an eternal hell at death, etc., will never admit error just because you show them the Scriptures that deny their false doctrines. And why is this? Because they despise the Word of God. The love their religion and its pagan doctrines, but they despise the Word of God. So that when you show them the Word of God they will deny that it is speaking an eternal truth. Christians worship the god of "context, context, context," but when you show them how something is used in "context," they then deny the whole "context" scenario. These Scriptures are so easily understood with a little of God's Spirit, that one wonders how any Christian theologian would have the gall to argue against what our Lord has said, but they do. Okay let's look at these verses IN CONTEXT:
Matt. 22:32--"I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. God is not the God of the dead, but of the LIVING.
Mark 12:27--"...He is not the God of the dead, but the God of he living: ye therefore do greatly err."
Luke 20:38--"For He is not a God of the dead, but of the LIVING: for all live unto Him."
Now then, what have we read? God is not the God of the dead. Why not? Because there is zero response to God from dead people. "...for the living know that they shall die, but the DEAD KNOW NOT ANYTHING" (Ecc. 9;5).
Ecc 9:10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.
But will an orthodox Christian believe this verse? OF COURSE NOT. What happens to a person's thoughts when he dies?
Psa 146:4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.
Will an orthodox Christian believe and accept this verse, that dead people are dead and have no knowledge or thoughts of any kind? OF COURSE NOT.
Now then, did Jesus say that Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are NOT dead? Did he actually say that? No, He did not. But He did say that "God is the God of the LIVING," didn't He? So how can God be the God of Abraham when God is God of the living, but Abraham is DEAD? Just read the verse before and it is clear as the noon day sun:
"But as TOUCHING THE R-E-S-U-R-R-E-C-T-I-O-N OF THE D-E-A-D ...God is the God of the LIVING" (Matt. 22:31)!
"And as TOUCHING THE DEAD, THAT THEY RISE: have ye not read....God [is] the God of the LIVING..." (Mark 12:26).
"...being the children of the RESURRECTION. Now that the DEAD ARE RAISED [RESURRECTION], even Moses showed...God [is] the God of the LIVING" (Luke 20:36-38).
So just exactly, precisely, doctrinally, Scripturally, truthfully, is "God the God of the Living" to people who are still DEAD? THROUGH THE RESURRECTION OF THE DEAD, by BRINGING BACK THE DEAD, by RAISING UP THE DEAD, so that they may again have "thoughts" of praise and "know" Who the True God is.
Now then, will your Christian friend see how they "GREATLY ER" (Mark 12:27)? I think not, but it would be great if I were wrong and your friend believed this simple Scriptural truth and repented of his heresy and idols of the heart.
God be with you,
Ray
Vangie:
I'm slow on the typing, but hope maybe this might help too.
To add to Marques' post, why would he be God to someone who's not even conscious? That still doesn't undo that He was, is, and will be God to other people who lived before, during, and after us.
Ecc 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
We should really try not to get bogged down in the letter, so that we can absorb the spirit of the message itself. God is LOVE, he is Lord of ALL--in ALL...he is SOVEREIGN. Whether we in our own carnality get it, is irrelevant. When we try to find the contradictions rather than see his sovereign plan, we fall prey to stumbling in our own flesh. We can't bring God to our level, we have to try to rise to HIM. Not meant as a pun, but I just realized it works in relation to the resurrection! ;)
Of course, all according to His will being done.
Love in Christ,
Vangie
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version