walking

[kenny]

walking sinless in this life, in this body with this spirit, with man. the word of god tells us that we can, Jesus came to be a road map for us to follow, he was made flesh and walked among us, he was tempted, he was tested, he was tried and yet he remained sinless.
the scripture also tells us that he went to the father so that we can do a greater work than these, heal the sick,the blind,the lame, to set the captives free, walk on water, and yeah don't forget he crawled up on a tree and lived for us, can we.
today is my first day here so all i can say at this point is, i want to know what do you think

Rom 6:2  God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Rom 6:11  Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Joh 9:3  Jesus answered, Neither369
אין
'ayin
ay'-yin
As if from a primitive root meaning to be nothing or not exist; a non-entity; generally used as a negative particle: - else, except, fail [father-] less, be gone, in [-curable], neither, never, no (where), none, nor (any, thing), not, nothing, to nought, past, un [-searchable], well-nigh, without, Compare H370.'ayin  ah'·yin  except, faileth, fatherless, incurable, infinite, innumerable, neither, never, no, none, not, nothing, nought, without
hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him. (Jesus' own words) at the time that Jesus told them that both parents and the son were sinless do you think that the church at that time just took Jesus' word for it that they were sinless, and didn't check it out i believe they did check it out and i also believe that they found no sin because no one called Jesus a liar and held him accountable dint forget that they were trying to trip Jesus up and if he had lied they would have pounced on him it is what they were doing, they wanted him dead or found to be false
Rom 5:14  Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned( intresting choice of words) after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. ayin
ay'-yin
As if from a primitive root meaning to be nothing or not exist; a non-entity; generally used as a negative particle: - else, except, fail [father-] less, be gone, in [-curable], neither, never, no (where), none, nor (any, thing), not, nothing, to nought, past, un [-searchable], well-nigh, without, Compare H370.

lets take another look at "walking"

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with [him], that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin
Free, Freedom, Freely, Freeman, Freedman, Freewoman:

"to make free" (akin to A), is used of deliverance from
(a) sin, Jhn 8:32, 36; Rom 6:18, 22;

(b) the Law, Rom 8:2; Gal 5:1 (see, however, under C);

(c) the bondage of corruption, Rom 8:21.
See DELIVER.

Note: In Rom 6:7, the verb dikaioo, translated "is freed," signifies "to justify," as in the RV, "is justified," i.e., in the legal sense; death annuls all obligations. The death penalty which Christ endured holds good for the believer, through his identification with Christ in His death; having been crucified as to his unregenerate nature, and justified from sin, he walks in newness of life in Christ.


lets take another look at some more Scripture (IT IS IN THE BIBLE I DID NOT PUT IT THERE)

Jn 5:18  We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not. (KJV)
1Jn 5:18 We are aware that everyone who has been begotten of God is not sinning, but he who is begotten of God is keeping himself, and the wicked one is not touching him."(CLV)



ou      Pronunciation
ü (Key)      
Part of Speech
particle      Root Word (Etymology)
a primary word, the absolute negative [cf G3361] adverb      
TDNT Reference
n/a    Vines
View Entry       
Outline of Biblical Usage
1) no, not; in direct questions expecting an affirmative answer
Authorized Version (KJV) Translation Count — Total: 1537
AV — not 1210, no 147, cannot + 1410 57, misc

i was listening to RAY'S FREE WILL bible study done in august of 08 and about thirteen minutes into it

ray
God knows the future every single chain of events

from there he goes on to being free not to sin

and let us not forget Job, he never utter a word against god even though he thought that it was god causing all that was happening to him, he did not know that God and the Adversary had the conversation about im and don't forget he still stayed faithful to GOD and sinned not

Job 1:22 In all this Job sinned not, nor charged God foolishly. 

[musicman]

Walking sinless in this life?

[Roy Martin]

My dear friend Kenny,
I am so glad to see you here.What a blessing this is.
Im not mature enough to comment to your post but if you dont mind I would like to say to everyone that this is my friend Kenny.We both have been in the same church for over 10 years.Kenny is the one that married my wife and I. This is so kool. Theres one more thats with us from the church or use to be.
Thats 3 of us. Im quite sure that soon you will be hearing from all of us.Yea I know you've already heard from me.
Peace
Roy Martin

[mharrell08]

walking sinless in this life, in this body with this spirit, with man. the word of god tells us that we can, Jesus came to be a road map for us to follow, he was made flesh and walked among us, he was tempted, he was tested, he was tried and yet he remained sinless.
the scripture also tells us that he went to the father so that we can do a greater work than these, heal the sick,the blind,the lame, to set the captives free, walk on water, and yeah don't forget he crawled up on a tree and lived for us, can we.
today is my first day here so all i can say at this point is, i want to know what do you think

Welcome to the forum Kenny,

If you could, can you provide the scriptures to help explain your comments? Where did you get 'walking sinless in this life'?

Have you read any of Ray's teachings?


Thanks,

Marques

[Ninny]

Kenny,
Marques isn't being flippant when he asks for "scripture and verse" It's something we all have learned from Ray Smith! "Scripture and verse, read ALL the words, line upon line upon line, precept upon precept."
You will hear and read this many times on this forum, and on the  BT website. Don't take offense we have just all been taken in by "thus saith the Lord" when He really didn't!
Looking forward to getting to know you!
Kathy

[Ninny]

Yes Roy! It is wonderful to have your friends with you here! 
Kathy

[Samson]

walking sinless in this life, in this body with this spirit, with man. the word of god tells us that we can, Jesus came to be a road map for us to follow, he was made flesh and walked among us, he was tempted, he was tested, he was tried and yet he remained sinless.
the scripture also tells us that he went to the father so that we can do a greater work than these, heal the sick,the blind,the lame, to set the captives free, walk on water, and yeah don't forget he crawled up on a tree and lived for us, can we.
today is my first day here so all i can say at this point is, i want to know what do you think

Hello Kenny,

                   An excerpt from Rays Transcript of Does all mean all(focusing on All(Greek-Pas) have sinned.


                    Rom 3:23  for all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God;

You know I could play their game and say, that's the word 'pas' it means some or many, it doesn't mean absolutely everyone.  I'm one that it doesn't include, I've not sinned.  And we know some people who have claimed that, just a little while back.  They say, 'I no longer sin.'  Of course it is in the past tense, so even if you are sinless now, it says "have sinned," at least in the past.  Really would any theologian say that doesn't mean all?  No they wouldn't.  But when it says "all have sinned" they say it means all.  But when it says all will be saved, it doesn't mean all.  What's their proof?  What's our proof? 

Now do you see why I put this study together today?  They don't have a personal problem with being a sinner, but they have a major problem with everybody being saved.  They just don't like that, you see.  So we are going to have to go a different route here, if we want to expose those that contradict the Word of God.  It's one thing to just say it, but if you are going to really expose it, then you have to prove it. 

So this one say "all have sinned."  Can we find other proof that the "all have sinned" means everyone?  Yes we can.

Rom 3:12  They are all [is that proof? No not according to theologians] gone out of the way, they are together [is that proof that all have sinned?  No not according to theologians] become unprofitable; There is none that doeth good, no not one:

There's the proof, you can't fight with that.  Is there one person who has never sinned?  "No not [even] one."  You have a double negative "no not one."  So yes we do have proof.

Here is another one.   What Jesus Christ said "there is none good," none (Matt 19:17).  Now that excludes any, but God.  So yea we can prove that all have sinned means absolutely everyone. 

Now can we prove that all will be saved, means absolutely everyone will be saved? 
Any suggestions. 
[Is all, especially believers proof? (1 Tim 4:10)] Yes especially believers, but what about "all (pas) men," the all is the many.  He will save many that come to Christ, in the future and especially those who are already believers. 
         

                                   (Excerpt from Rays Transcript written above)



                                   ( My Scriptural Witnesses are Below)
Romans. 3:23 " All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.
                 Romans. 5:12 " Through one man, sinned entered into the World, death spread to all men, because all had
                                      sinned."
                 Romans. 7:19 " For the good that I wish I do not do, but the bad that I do not wish is what I practice."         Romans. 3:10 " just as it is written, There is none righteous, not even one."


                                         Kind Regards, Samson.

[Kat]

Hi Kenny,

I'm glad you have joined us 

Here is an excerpt from a conference in 2005 'What Is The Gospel Of The Kingdom?'

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php?topic=6142.0 ----------------------

He always did that, He went into every synagogue.  Wherever He went there was a synagogue and He went in.

Luke 4:17  And was delivered to Him the book of the prophet Isaiah. And unrolling the book, He found the place where it was written, v. 18  "The Spirit of the Lord is on Me; because of this He has anointed Me to preach the Gospel...

This is every place He went and He covered a big area.  He went into every synagogue and He said bring Me the book of Isaiah, He opened it up and read to them. 

Luke 4:18-19  "The Spirit of the Lord is on Me; because of this He has anointed Me to proclaim the Gospel to the poor. He has sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to proclaim deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight of the blind, to set at liberty those having been bruised, to proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD.

Then He sat down.

Luke 4:21  And He began to say to them, this day is this Scripture is fulfilled in your ears.

He taught that in every synagogue, synagogue after synagogue after synagogue, year after year after year, for 3 ½ years that's what He taught, right there.  He said this is what I am all about, this is who I represent, this is what I've come to do and you are seeing Me do it.  But not completely.  He said, verse 18, " And recovering of sight of the blind."  Yes He did heal those who were blind, so that they could physically see.  He did raise the dead and He did heal the sick, but they all died later.  Most of them were not, spiritually, that much better off.  Physically they appreciated being rid of diseases and all that.  Physically they were very happy, they couldn't see and now they can see, they couldn't walk now and they can walk. 


                                       GREATER WORKS

But just like when God said to Israel, I'm choosing you, it was a shadow.  Now Christ came and we say, at last now we have the real thing.  That was right, He was the real thing.  He was the Seed! 

But part of this gospel involves judging, right.  Peter said it involves judging the quick and the dead.  Did Jesus Christ judge the quick and the dead when He was here?  Some of this remains and has yet to a fulfillment and it has to.  I will tell you why it has to.  Jesus Christ told His disciples...

John 14:12  Truly, truly, I say to you, He who believes on Me, the works that I do he shall do also, and greater works than these he shall do, because I go to My Father.

He healed the sick, gave vision to the blind, caused the lime to walk, caused the dead to live...  you're going to do greater things than that.  Oh really?  And what might that be Lord? 

I've had people ask me numerous times, 'Ray can you walk on water, have you raised the dead, have you...?'  As a matter of fact I have.  Which is greater, to raise somebody back to physical life, so that they can physically die again or to raise someone who is spiritually dead to spiritual life?  God is doing greater things through the called, chosen, Elect few of His church, than He did in His own ministry, when He fed 5000, walked on the water, calmed the storm, healed the sick and raised the dead.  He said He would... "greater things," they are greater.  They are not greater if you've got a carnal mind, they are not greater then, it sounds like foolishness.  That's what it will sound like to you, unless you have the spiritual mind to see it. 

I get email back to back, one says, 'Ray I'm in tears, I'm blown away, I never knew there was such a God.  I never knew that the Scripture said such marvelous things as you are telling us.' 
And then I get another email, 'May you rot in hell you s_o_b_ , you son of Satan.'  Two emails back to back!  You tell me what's the difference... seed of the woman through Christ - seed of the devil.

So when Jesus read this many among them had already heard it, maybe the day before He had came into this synagogue in this village.  If you read the Scripture it says every town, every city, every village, every hamlet and everywhere there was a synagogue He was there.  He taught this Scripture and they saw that He did these things.  But what do we read in John...

John 6:63  It is the Spirit that quickens, the flesh profits nothing...

But He healed the sick... the flesh profits nothing, but He caused the blind to see... the flesh profits nothing. 

V. 63 ...The words that I speak to you are SPIRIT and are life.

'You mean these words that He quoted to every village and town and hamlet and city in Jerusalem and Judea and all around Galilee, you mean all these words are Spirit?'  That's what He said, I believe Him.  These are words of Spirit.  He's not talking about giving sight to the blind, who can't see the sunset.  He talking about giving spiritual sight to those that are spiritually blind!  The words of Christ are Spirit, there fulfillment are Spirit. 

Christ has a kingdom made up of heavens - people who in their heavens, have God dwelling.  This is Spirit!  Spirit is more real than physical, because physical is temporary, Paul tells us.  This kingdom will last, Daniel says.  This kingdom is not going to be over turned in so many years by some more powerful nation. 
------------------------------------------------------------

We also have audio of that conference
Gospel Of The Kingdom part one:
http://bible-truths.com/audio/M05
Gospel Of The Kingdom part two:
http://bible-truths.com/audio/M05

The whole part of the conference about 'The Gospel of the Kingdom' would be a very good study to help your understanding in this area.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[Marky Mark]

walking sinless in this life, in this body with this spirit, with man. the word of god tells us that we can, Jesus came to be a road map for us to follow, he was made flesh and walked among us, he was tempted, he was tested, he was tried and yet he remained sinless.
the scripture also tells us that he went to the father so that we can do a greater work than these, heal the sick,the blind,the lame, to set the captives free, walk on water, and yeah don't forget he crawled up on a tree and lived for us, can we.
today is my first day here so all i can say at this point is, i want to know what do you think

can we.

Welcome Kenny,good to have you on board

Here is an email to Ray,I thought that you might like to read it.

Ray,

When Jesus taught the disciples to pray, He said,

"and lead us not into temptation..." 

also, it was the Holy Spirit who led Jesus in the wilderness to be tempted.  But then James 1:13 says,

"Let no one say when he is tempted, "I am being tempted by God"; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone." 

It's confusing, and I haven't been able to figure it out?

Hope all is well.  Love to you all, and thank you for everything!

Gina

[Ray Replies]

Gina:

Why would Jesus tell us to pray that God should NOT lead us into temptation [Gk: trial] when, in reality, we DO go through trials?

After all, Jesus was led of the spirit into the wilderness for the express purpose of being "tried."

Then James comes along and says

"Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, NEITHER TEMPTS HE ANY MANY." (James 1:13).

And if that is bad enough, James first tells us in James 1:2 to

"...COUNT IT ALL JOY WHEN YE FALL INTO DIVERS TEMPTATIONS"!

What is going on here?

Although this might sound like a triple contradiction, it is not.

First let's be abundantly clear that God, HIMSELF, does not ever do the actual "trying or tempting."

"And the SERPENT said unto Eve... And when the woman SAW that the tree was good for food,  and that it was PLEASANT TO THE EYES ['...the lust of the eyes ... is NOT OF the Father...' John 2:16], and a tree to be DESIRED to make one wise, she TOOK of the fruit thereof, and DID EAT... And the woman said, THE SERPENT BEGUILED [deceived] ME..." (Gen. 3:6 & 13).

"And lead us not into temptation but DELIVER US FROM THE EVIL ONE [Satan]" (Matt. 6:13).

"...when YOU  FALL into divers [various] temptations [trials]..." (James 1:2).

"But every man is tempted, when he is DRAWN AWAY OF HIS OWN LUST, and enticed. THEN when lust has conceived, it brings forth SIN: and sin, when it is finished [full grown], brings DEATH" (James 1:14-15).

From all of these examples it is abundantly clear that it is not the OBJECT that is the TEMPTATION, but rather the temptation COMES FROM WITHIN, not from without. It was not the "tree" that MADE Eve lust. It is not the "pretty woman" that MAKES a man lust. The LUST IS IN THE MIND, IN THE HEART, and therefore, the trial IS IN THE HEART AND MIND, not in the literal flesh.

And so we pray that God should not lead us into temptation, but rather DELIVER US FROM THE EVIL ONE [Satan] WHO DOES LEAD US INTO TEMPTATION.

But notice again, we pray that we should be "DELIVERED." We cannot be 'delivered' from something UNLESS WE ARE ALREADY IN IT! God intends that we get "IN IT"--trials and temptations, which are GOOD FOR US, AFTER we have gone through them.

The longer we live the Christian walk, the better we should get at this. Hence Paul tells us,

"For if we would JUDGE OURSELVES, we should not be judged" (I Cor. 11:31).

The MORE we 'judge ourselves' the LESS we are "lead into temptation." We learn to cut it off at the pass, as they say. It is by God's divine counsel that we are led into temptation (even if God never DIRECTLY tries or tempts us), and it is by God's divine counsel that He delivers us from the "evil one."

Hope that helps a little.

God be with you,

Ray

Peace...Mark

[Akira329]

Hey Kenny!
Welcome to the forum!
Thats cool you know Roy, Its nice to have others with us through this journey

walking sinless in this life,

You will find out quickly how important it is to quote scriptures.
To help you along the way here is an email by Ray:

Dear Jim: I will make a few COMMENTS on your email................

Dear Ray,
Your teachings have changed my life, you are really God appointed and not self or others appointed. I really need the answer to this question to solidify things for me. You say we have to have sin out of our lives to be the chosen, does God make us perfect through Christ? can you show me through scripture that that is not just positionally but in behavior also.

COMMENT:  No Believer is "perfect" and totally free from sin while he is still in this flesh.  One needs to repent of their sins and be led by God's Holy Spirit into a life where one is no longer reigned over by sin.  It doesn't mean that we are perfect and sinless. Even the Apostle John near the end of his ministry plainly stated:

1Jo 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

1Jo 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

1Jo 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

  It says in James that God's seed can't sin, can the new man/creature sin? isn't that part of us perfect? do we have God's seed? what is that seed?

COMMENT:  There are a lot of unscriptural phrases in that set of questions that are difficult to answer as asked.
Actually, the Scripture you are trying to reference is found in I John 3:9, not in James' epistle:

1Jo 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

This is speaking of being "born" of God. No one is "born" of God until resurrection. In this life we are only "begotten."  The words "born" and "begotten" come from the same Greek word. They didn't have two different words for the two different aspects of regeneration.  Here is a Scripture that shows we have only a spiritual "begettal" in this life:

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Eph 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

Notice that we must wait "until" our full redemption is acquired. That happens in resurrection.  Jesus taught that when we are actually "born" of the spirit (rather than just begotten), we will be "like the wind."  None of us are "like the wind" in this life (John 3:6-8).

There are many Scriptures which speak of how we are to come out of sin, and stop sinning, even though we never achieve total perfection while we are in the flesh:

Eph 5:1 Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children;

Eph 5:2 And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet-smelling savour.

Eph 5:3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;

Eph 5:4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.

Eph 5:5 For this ye know, that no whore monger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

Eph 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.

Eph 5:7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them.

Eph 5:8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:

Eph 5:9 (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;)

Eph 5:10 Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.

Eph 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.

Eph 5:12 For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.

Eph 5:13 But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.

Eph 5:14 Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.

Eph 5:15 See then that ye walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise,

Eph 5:16 Redeeming the time, because the days are evil.

Eph 5:17 Wherefore be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is.

Eph 5:18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;

Eph 5:19 Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;

Eph 5:20 Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ;

Eph 5:21 Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God.

This is way to big a subject to cover in an email, but I hope this has been helpful to you. Read all the material on our site. Especially read the first paper at the top of our Home Page:  "YOU FOOLS! YOU HYPOCRITES! YOU SNAKES!"  This is must reading if you are to understand our walk with God.

God be with you,

Ray

Knowing this answer will help with my understanding.
Thanks
Jim

Hope this helps!
Stay with us Kenny, this is a great place to be.

Antaiwan

[lferretj]

Akira329 beat me to my post, thanks for answering my question as well 



Kenny you posted "walking sinless in this life, in this body with this spirit, with man. the word of god tells us that we can"

John 8: 32Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free."

33They answered him, "We are Abraham's descendants[a] and have never been slaves of anyone. How can you say that we shall be set free?"

34Jesus replied, "I tell you the truth, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. 35Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever. 36So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.

1 John3: 9No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. (NIV)

I have heard the argument before that man here on Earth can have a walk that is completely sinless and correct me if I'm wrong but i think the verses above are used to show this point.  Are these some of the verses you have a question about?  Don't get me wrong I'm not condoning that argument, the previous posts show that "all have sinned" and that it is a process to become like Christ.  Does anyone know of a place where Ray explains these particular verses?  I tried a search but did not come up with much.  
       lferretj

[Akira329]

Hey Iferretj,

I believed your question has already been answered in your post.
34Jesus replied, "I tell you the truth, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. 35Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever. 36So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.

Only a son can be free from sin.
We become sons by being born of the father.
To be born of the Father means to be spiritually born.
We are born to flesh, we must put off the flesh and put on that which is spiritual.
As long as we abide in the flesh we are in danger of falling to its wiles.
We must bring it into subjection and mortify its deeds daily! Meaning we no longer practice sin but practice righteousness.

Read the book of Romans, A great book!
Paul never claimed to be sinless none of the apostles claimed to be sinless because they new what it meant to be sinless.
Hopes this helps Iferretj

Antaiwan

[musicman]

My dear friend Kenny,
I am so glad to see you here.What a blessing this is.
Im not mature enough to comment to your post but if you dont mind I would like to say to everyone that this is my friend Kenny.We both have been in the same church for over 10 years.Kenny is the one that married my wife and I. This is so kool. Theres one more thats with us from the church or use to be.
Thats 3 of us. Im quite sure that soon you will be hearing from all of us.Yea I know you've already heard from me.
Peace
Roy Martin

Roy??

He married your wife and yourself??

I would think that you would be pretty p'd at him for marrying your wife but then. . . . . . . . ... .. you.. . . . .say he also married you. 


Now that's just weird.

Were these marriages leagal?


I'm soooooooooo confused.

[Akira329]

Another email from Ray
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,6922.0.html

Hi Ray,
I just listened to your study. I have to say, I am very worried and down-right scared. Are you stating that if I have yet to overcome my lust issues and if I have not yet conquered my inability to resist lustful situations, that I have no hope for eonian life and the first resurrection? Am I now guaranteed the Lake Of Fire? Didn't God tell us to "confess our sins, and He is faithful to forgive us our sins"?

Isn't Hebrews 10:26, talking about people who CHOOSE a sinful life STYLE regardless of the knowledge they have of God's truth and do not CARE about the kind of life they live? Surely this isn't taking of a sin or even a hand full of "sins" committed in weakness, but rather a chosen way of life, is it not?

I am a 32 year old who still has major issues with my flesh (suprise). I so desire to pluck out my own ey es! I do not want to do the things that I still do that are wrong (lust over women, etc). I HATE IT! Of course my FLESH likes it, but "I" hate it. I feel completely helpless in my own skin.

I am very worried because of what you said in your audio. I now feel like I am guaranteed to go to the LOF, since I certainly am still a sinner. I certainly do not have the attitude of "I'm going to be saved anyway so I'll just go out and do whatever my flesh wants to". I desire to cast of my members into the fire, but I just don't know how!

I hope you choose to respond as I am in spiritual pain right now.

J

    Dear J:  You must rid yourself of all the Christian superstition that is still in your consciousness. You can't save yourself, except as God gives you the desire and the power. If sin still has "dominion" over you (See Rom. 6), then God has not yet been victorious in your spiritual life. It doesn't mean that he is finished with you, however.  I continued to sin for years after I KNEW what I was doing was sin. I just deceived myself into being thankful for greasy grace.

    One does not stop all his sinning just because he desires to stop.  I desired to stop, but I couldn't stop. When it was God's time in my life to really repent and stop sinning, then God brought that about. No matter how much power you believe there to be in human will, God will bring you to the place that you will have NO CONFIDENCE IN THE FLESH (Phil. 3:3).  God is going to make you hate your sins real bad before He will grant you victory over them. Be patient--pray and obey till God comes to your aid.

    God be with you,

    Ray
My Web Master suggested I made an editorial note to my last reply to Jeremy's email on quitting sin. I was not suggesting that we becomes totally "sinless" when we become spiritually converted. The key is in the word I used to reference Romans chapter 6 in which it is stated that sin shall not have "DOMINION" over our lives. Now there is a different between consciously living sin free, and committing sins even when we consciously determine not to sin.  It is not humanly possible to live totally sin free. Notice Paul's words:

Phi 3:10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;

Phi 3:11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.

Phi 3:12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

Phi 3:13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,

Phi 3:14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

Phi 3:15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

Phi 3:16 Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing.

This letter was written years into Paul's ministry, and years after his bitter repentance, and YET, he states, "Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect..." If Paul could admit to that, where oh where do you think most of us come in?  Yet we should all come to the place in our lives where "sin shall NOT have dominion over you." Hope this makes my previous statements a littler clearer.

God be with you,

Ray



Antaiwan

[judith collier]

To Anyone, what about the blind man who first thought he saw trees walking when his sight was being restored? Then he saw more perfectly as time went on. Are you saying, "all is spiritual healing that Jesus did?" Or rather Ray.  Judy

[cjwood]

Roy??

He married your wife and yourself??

I would think that you would be pretty p'd at him for marrying your wife but then. . . . . . . . ... .. you.. . . . .say he also married you. 


Now that's just weird.

Were these marriages leagal?


I'm soooooooooo confused.










oh musicman sing us your song  . levity levity levity  .

claudia

[cjwood]

forgot to say welcome to the family kenny. if you will read and read and read and study study study and pray and pray and pray and be humble humble humble this bible-truths website and all that is available on it will be a spring of refreshing Living water through Jesus Christ our Brother and Savior.

claudia

[Kat]

Hi Judy,

To Anyone, what about the blind man who first thought he saw trees walking when his sight was being restored? Then he saw more perfectly as time went on. Are you saying, "all is spiritual healing that Jesus did?" Or rather Ray.

Mar 8:22  Then He came to Bethsaida; and they brought a blind man to Him, and begged Him to touch him.
v. 23  So He took the blind man by the hand and led him out of the town. And when He had spit on his eyes and put His hands on him, He asked him if he saw anything.
v. 24  And he looked up and said, "I see men like trees, walking."
v. 25  Then He put His hands on his eyes again and made him look up. And he was restored and saw everyone clearly.
v. 26  Then He sent him away to his house, saying, "Neither go into the town, nor tell anyone in the town."

This was a 'physical' miracle that Jesus preformed, it was physically good for the man and gave him his sight.  But this miracle was only temporary, for the physical, "first but the physical, and then the spiritual."

1Co 15:46  But it is not the spiritual which is first but the physical, and then the spiritual.

In the excerpt in my post from 'What Is The Gospel Of The Kingdom?'  Ray explained that when someone has their 'spiritual' eyes opened, which happens at the Bible truths site, this is "greater works," because this miracle can lead to being in the first resurrection, which is permanent.  Here is part of the excerpt again.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php?topic=6142.0 --------------

John 14:12  Truly, truly, I say to you, He who believes on Me, the works that I do he shall do also, and greater works than these he shall do, because I go to My Father.

He healed the sick, gave vision to the blind, caused the lime to walk, caused the dead to live...  you're going to do greater things than that.  Oh really?  And what might that be Lord?  

I've had people ask me numerous times, 'Ray can you walk on water, have you raised the dead, have you...?'  As a matter of fact I have.  Which is greater, to raise somebody back to physical life, so that they can physically die again or to raise someone who is spiritually dead to spiritual life?  God is doing greater things through the called, chosen, Elect few of His church, than He did in His own ministry, when He fed 5000, walked on the water, calmed the storm, healed the sick and raised the dead.  He said we would do... "greater things," they are greater.  They are not greater if you've got a carnal mind, they are not greater then, it sounds like foolishness.  That's what it will sound like to you, unless you have the spiritual mind to see it.  
v
This is Spirit!  Spirit is more real than physical, because physical is temporary, Paul tells us.  This kingdom will last, Daniel says.  This kingdom is not going to be over turned in so many years by some more powerful nation.
--------------------------------------------------------

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[cjwood]

thank you kat for that link from ray.

claudia

[Ninny]

Musicman, you are SO weird!! At least you're consistent!!
Kathy