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Author Topic: What part of this Book is not for you?  (Read 17073 times)

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gmik

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what part of book...
« Reply #60 on: June 05, 2006, 11:47:07 PM »

thanks lm.....patience, you are right
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chrissiela

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What part of this Book is not for you?
« Reply #61 on: June 06, 2006, 12:03:58 AM »

Quote from: love_magnified
chrissiela, you were right. Mike is in agreement with the fact that Malachi was speaking spiritually, and was therefore using that as an example suggesting that the plagues likewise have spiritual application to the flesh that resists God such as the fire that cleanses the Levites today. I mistook his wording, so after another reading it became more clear. Thank you.  :D


You're welcome!!  :wink:

Chrissie
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bobf

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What part of this Book is not for you?
« Reply #62 on: June 06, 2006, 01:25:58 AM »

Partaking of her plagues is in DIRECT proportion to partaking of her sins.

Revelation 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.  

5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.  

6 Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double.  

7 How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.


Does "ye receive not of her plagues" mean that God's elect never partook of her plagues or does it mean that God's elect cease to partake of her plagues WHEN they come out of her.

Leviticus 26 shows that there is always another SEVEN plagues to partake of so long as one remains in her sins.
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Indagator

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What part of this Book is not for you?
« Reply #63 on: June 06, 2006, 01:38:37 AM »

They may indeed be working it out as "peter and paul".  I think it best in the meantime to be faithful, and to follow Christ.  For that matter, not even in the meantime.  Just follow Christ, not man.
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SOTW

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What part of this Book is not for you?
« Reply #64 on: June 06, 2006, 05:06:35 AM »

Can we see an affidavid of this?
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EZE

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What part of this Book is not for you?
« Reply #65 on: June 06, 2006, 10:13:04 AM »

SOTW - an affadavid of what?

Looks like the BT Admin/Gestapo have pulled Andrews posts off, he's probably been banned from this forum ala SteveB.
I'm guessing I won't be too far behind.

EZE
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Becky

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What part of this Book is not for you?
« Reply #66 on: June 06, 2006, 10:15:36 AM »

are they going to ban us all for asking?... just a question....  :|
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rocky

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What part of this Book is not for you?
« Reply #67 on: June 06, 2006, 10:44:40 AM »

Quote from: Lightseeker
Quote
 Mike:

After visiting your site regarding the upcoming Conference in Michigan, I see that you are planning to teach that the Elect will all have to go through the Seven Last Plagues. I have already told you that I believe this to be unscriptural. The elect assuredly DO NOT go through the Seven Last Plagues. God, in fact, gives assurance, that if His people will "COME OUT OF HER MY PEOPLE, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive NOT OF HER PLAGUES" (Rev. 18:4). The only way that you can put the Elect through the Seven Last Plagues, is to "add to" or "take away from" this plain Scripture stating that those who come OUT OF HER (the Elect) will NOT receive of her plagues.
"For God has NOT appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ" (I Thes. 5:9). The Seven Last Plagues fill up "the WRATH of the Lamb" (Rev. 6:17), and the Elect are NOT APPOINTED TO WRATH. What are the Elect appointed to? They are appointed to "afflictions and tribulation," (I Thes. 3:3-4), not the WRATH OF GOD (I Thes. 5:9). What part of the word "not" do you not understand?


Is it possible that both Ray and Mike are right?  Might I expand on the scriptures quoted, in a teaching of comparison, and see if additional light might not be shed upon this dilemma.

Did Israel go through the Plagues of Egypt?  Yes!  Was she touched by them?  No!  Did not Shadrack, Meshach and Abednego go through the wrath of the firey furnace, of King Nebuchadnezzar?  Were they harmed or was the smell of smoke even upon them?  No!  Are we not admonished to be in the world and yet not of the world.  So also, can one be in the church and yet not of the church.  The church by definiton is the called out ones, and we don't do the calling...God does.  But aren't the nomial believers still part of 'the church'?  But to become a chosen or elect one is not of his calling but of our doing....after His calling.  

MAT 20:16  So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called (kletos/saints), but few chosen (eklektos: select; by impl. favorite).


Do the overcomers (chosen ones) overcome by leaving…or by not partaking of her sins and blasphemies...by cleaning up their act in obedient sanctification.  

There are those in the church who are living ‘in Christed’ and in the heavenlies.  They are also those who are led by the Spirit of God and are therefore Sons of god (Rom 8:14).  But there are also those in the church who are 'in Christ' and living at the earthly realm, far below the position that comes to those who press in to the high calling of Christ (Phi 3:14).  But they are not 'the elect' because they have not cleansed themselves to be chosen and honorable vessels (2Ti 2:21).

REV 18:4  And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive/lambano not of her plagues.  

The word for receive in this verse is not saying what it superficially seems to be saying.  This word 'lambano' indicates 'a self prompted taking' of something.  Whereas the other Greek word usually translated receive is 'decomai'.  It means a passive reception of something.  Those who are going to partake of the plagues will be those who have taken/received them because they haven't pressed into the high calling.  But those who have will be allowed to go through them...and yet without being touched by them.

Is this a possibility.  Could both, Ray and Mike, be half right and yet half wrong?


Thanks for the post it helped me realize, as with the plagues; all went through the plagues, some hurt by it, some not., but all went through it at the same time.  Same with Shadrack story, some hurt, some not; same fire, same time.  

Lake of fire is now, some hurt by it, some not???  

Th wrath of God is now, not only in the future?  The lake of fire is now, not only in the future?  I see those not being hurt in the second death as happening now, and some are being hurt by the second death now.  Is this how u see it?

Is, was and will be.
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mercie

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What part of this Book is not for you?
« Reply #68 on: June 06, 2006, 11:00:52 AM »

Is not The Book ( Christ)  a book for Today , Yesterday and Tomorrow ?

Luk 7:21 And in that same hour he cured many of [their] infirmities and plagues, and of evil spirits; and unto many [that were] blind he gave sight.

Rev 16:8 And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was given unto him to scorch men with fire.  


 Rev 16:9 And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory
Mat 13:4 And when he sowed, some [seeds] fell by the way side, and the fowls came and devoured them up:  


 Mat 13:5 Some fell upon stony places, where they had not much earth: and forthwith they sprung up, because they had no deepness of earth:  


 Mat 13:6 And when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away

Mar 4:15 And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.  


 Mar 4:16 And these are they likewise which are sown on stony ground; who, when they have heard the word, immediately receive it with gladness;  


 Mar 4:17 And have no root in themselves, and so endure but for a time: afterward, when affliction or persecution ariseth for the word's sake, immediately they are offended.  

why?

Eph 3:17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,

Col 2:7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.

That which has Not been Planted shall be rooted Up

Mat 15:13 But he answered and said, Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up.

Pro 2:22 But the wicked shall be cut off from the earth, and the transgressors shall be rooted out of it.

Deu 29:28 And the LORD rooted them out of their land in anger, and in wrath, and in great indignation, and cast them into another land, as [it is] this day.
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rocky

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What part of this Book is not for you?
« Reply #69 on: June 06, 2006, 11:27:10 AM »

Quote from: mercie
Is not The Book ( Christ)  a book for Today , Yesterday and Tomorrow ?

Luk 7:21 And in that same hour he cured many of [their] infirmities and plagues, and of evil spirits; and unto many [that were] blind he gave sight.

Rev 16:8 And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was given unto him to scorch men with fire.  


 Rev 16:9 And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory
Mat 13:4 And when he sowed, some [seeds] fell by the way side, and the fowls came and devoured them up:  


 Mat 13:5 Some fell upon stony places, where they had not much earth: and forthwith they sprung up, because they had no deepness of earth:  


 Mat 13:6 And when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away

Mar 4:15 And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.  


 Mar 4:16 And these are they likewise which are sown on stony ground; who, when they have heard the word, immediately receive it with gladness;  


 Mar 4:17 And have no root in themselves, and so endure but for a time: afterward, when affliction or persecution ariseth for the word's sake, immediately they are offended.  

why?

Eph 3:17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,

Col 2:7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.

That which has Not been Planted shall be rooted Up

Mat 15:13 But he answered and said, Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up.

Pro 2:22 But the wicked shall be cut off from the earth, and the transgressors shall be rooted out of it.

Deu 29:28 And the LORD rooted them out of their land in anger, and in wrath, and in great indignation, and cast them into another land, as [it is] this day.


Yes, is, was and will be.  Today, Yesterday, and tomorrow

Seems to me that the lake of fire is not in the next Age, for those in this age who didn't overcome.  Seems to me, the LOF is now, for those not overcoming, and they are hurt by it.  

Fire is going on now for all, one not being hurt by it, one being hurt by it.
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Craig

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What part of this Book is not for you?
« Reply #70 on: June 06, 2006, 11:30:31 AM »

Quote from: Becky
are they going to ban us all for asking?... just a question....  :|


Becky and all,

No less than 3 times has Dennis posted and asked us to drop the subject, that now is not the time to speculate and start rumors about things that none of us know what is going on anyway.  Myself included.

The people who have been banned could not let it go and posted PMs (PRIVATE messages) and emails of converstations that may not tell the whole story, leading to more questions and speculation.

Dennis nor any of the mods have asked anyone to take sides over this isssue.  Ray has said, and Dennis posted, he will answer in the future, now is not the time.   So for now let's move on.

Let me say one thing though that is causing me some concern.  Doctrines are formed when someone gets revelation of a biblical truth.  We then tend to take this ball and run with it, making the rest of the scriptures to fit into our preconceived mold.  

I fear that, Is Was and Will Be (the idea, NOT the website or Mike), is becoming a doctrine unto itself.  There is truth to this very compelling and wonderful way of looking at scripture, but you can't pull every scripture out of the air and spritualize it to conform to this truth.
I see some of us here starting to do just this.  I pray that we all follow in the real truths of God and not the doctrines that our human natures wish to adhere to.  

Please, Please, Please do not take this a me throwing a barb at Mike because that is not my intention at all.  This has nothing to do with Ray or Mike's problems, just my own observation.

I hope that nobody else is ever banned here, but you must leave this alone for now.

Blessings

Craig
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mercie

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What part of this Book is not for you?
« Reply #71 on: June 06, 2006, 11:51:15 AM »

Craig

 
May I ask having read Rays work and Mike s


One of the ways to Understanding scripture is Thus:

Which things also we speak, not in the words which man’s wisdom teaches, but which the Holy Spirit teaches; COMPARING [or ‘matching’] SPIRITUAL THINGS WITH SPIRITUAL" (I Cor. 2:13).

"And to this AGREE the words of the prophets; as it is written…" (Acts 15:15).

[C] "These [Bereans]… searched the Scriptures daily, whether those things were SO [Gk: ‘in this way,’ ‘like’] (Acts 17:11).

[D] "AS You have sent Me into the world, EVEN SO have I sent them into the world" (John 17:18, and many, many other such comparisons).


Or do we all Sit at Rays feet and wait on Him to reveal it?

Please dont take this personally, Im just curious , as There is No desire to Rock the Boat .

Ive been Blessed by many writings of Both Men and the  by the Input of others Here while sitting in the wings.

Many Thanks
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Steve Crook

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What part of this Book is not for you?
« Reply #72 on: June 06, 2006, 11:53:17 AM »

Well, please remove me from the forums before I too am banned, but please let these scriptures, from the Word of God, stay up.

Mat 26:39  And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.

Jer 25:15  For thus saith the LORD God of Israel unto me; Take the wine cup of this fury at my hand, and cause all the nations, to whom I send thee, to drink it.

Jer 49:12  For thus saith the LORD; Behold, they whose judgment was not to drink of the cup have assuredly drunken; and art thou he that shall altogether go unpunished? thou shalt not go unpunished, but thou shalt surely drink of it.

Mat 20:22  But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able.
Mat 20:23  And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with:

Mar 14:36  And he said, Abba, Father, all things are possible unto thee; take away this cup from me: nevertheless not what I will, but what thou wilt.

Luk 22:17  And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and said, Take this, and divide it among yourselves:

1Pe 4:12  Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:

Heb 12:6  For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
Heb 12:7  If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?

Isa 54:7  For a small moment have I forsaken thee; but with great mercies will I gather thee.
Isa 54:8  In a little wrath I hid my face from thee for a moment; but with everlasting kindness will I have mercy on thee, saith the LORD thy Redeemer.

Mat 27:46  And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
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Craig

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What part of this Book is not for you?
« Reply #73 on: June 06, 2006, 11:55:33 AM »

Quote from: mercie


Or do we all Sit at Rays feet and wait on Him to reveal it?


I will not even answer this question.  Is that the way you really think I/we study and search???

 :cry:
Craig
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Craig

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What part of this Book is not for you?
« Reply #74 on: June 06, 2006, 11:57:36 AM »

Quote from: Steve Crook
Well, please remove me from the forums before I too am banned, but please let these scriptures, from the Word of God, stay up.


Why would you say this??

Craig
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JJ

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What part of this Book is not for you?
« Reply #75 on: June 06, 2006, 12:06:22 PM »

People, where does patience come in?  My, my....... has this modern world left us w/o that ancient fruit?  Can we not just hold our
tongues and study privately, following the requests of mods, giving a bit of respect to the main characters involved and trust that it will all be
resolved or at least discussed in time.  It seems way too soon to become
impatient......  if we are asked to let it drop, then just study and wait.....
it is so hard for us all as flesh to do this..... hard for me, but so good for
our character.  Please!  
JJ
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Lightseeker

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What part of this Book is not for you?
« Reply #76 on: June 06, 2006, 12:43:13 PM »

rocky

Quote
Lake of fire is now, some hurt by it, some not???  

The wrath of God is now, not only in the future?  The lake of fire is now, not only in the future?  I see those not being hurt in the second death as happening now, and some are being hurt by the second death now.  Is this how u see it?


I do see God's wrath as being now.  But this concept of the lake of fire being now, is new to me.  I know that our god is a consuming fire and I know that I was baptized with the Holy Ghost and with fire.  I also know that the purpose of fire is to purge/cleanse and not torture.  So is that the lake of fire??? I don't know, but I'm not opposed to that idea.

parsonssc
Quote
I fear that, Is Was and Will Be, is becoming a doctrine unto itself. There is truth to this very compelling and wonderful way of looking at scripture, but you can't pull every scripture out of the air and spritualize it to conform to this truth.
I see some of us here starting to do just this. I pray that we all follow in the real truths of God and not the doctrines that our human natures wish to adhere to.

Please, Please, Please do not take this a me throwing a barb at Mike because that is not my intention at all. This has nothing to do with Ray or Mike's problems, just my own observation.


Very good word Craig.

JJ,
Quote
People, where does patience come in? My, my....... has this modern world left us w/o that ancient fruit?  


JJ, you've been around long enough to know that these are the very things which produce the fruit of patience.  At least in those who keep their hand on the plow.  :wink:
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mercie

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What part of this Book is not for you?
« Reply #77 on: June 06, 2006, 01:17:53 PM »

Quote from: bobbys43
I for one do not want to see people taking sides on way or the other and that is not what Christ would have us to do.

 
 And the greatest commandment is to Love the Lord our God with all our heart and mind and to love our nieghbor as ourselves.

bobby


AMEN.
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Daniel

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What part of this Book is not for you?
« Reply #78 on: June 06, 2006, 01:56:04 PM »

I second MERCIE (great name by the way) :wink:  Amen Bobby!


Prov 11:17 The merciful man doeth good to his own soul: but he that is cruel troubleth his own flesh.[/u]


Gen 49:5 Simeon and Levi are brethren; instruments of cruelty are "in their" habitations.  :shock:


49:6 O my soul, come not thou into their secret; unto their assembly, mine honour, be not thou united: for in their anger they slew a man :shock:  and "in their selfwill" they digged down a wall.

The wrath of man "worketh not" the righteousness of God.


Gan 49:7 Cursed be their anger, for "it was fierce"; and their wrath, for it was cruel: I will divide them in Jacob, and scatter them in Israel.  


Psalm 71:4 Deliver me, O my God, out of the hand of the wicked, out of the hand of the unrighteous and cruel man.[/u]

Faith worketh by love[/u]


2 Thes 3:2 "that we may be delivered from" unreasonable and wicked men: for "all men" have not faith.[/u] (which worketh by love)
 

Who then is wicked in this parable?

Mathew 18:32 Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me:Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee?[/u]


The wicked do not "understand" but continue to do wickedly. Not walking in love by showing mercy and forgiveness. Forgive us AS WE forgive others. In the parable the Heavenly Father will treat us the same if we "from our hearts" do not forgive our brother from our hearts.


Zech 7:9 Thus speaketh the LORD of hosts, saying, Execute true judgment, and shew mercy and compassions every man to his brother:[/u]


James 2:13 For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.[/u]

Which was the point of the parable

Mathew 5:7 Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.[/u]

Lets OBTAIN :idea:

Daniel
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chrissiela

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What part of this Book is not for you?
« Reply #79 on: June 06, 2006, 03:19:44 PM »

Great Post Daniel!

And bobby, too!!

HATE!! Carries with it the power of life and death.... as does the tongue (speaking evil of one another, etc) all connected, as I see it.  :cry:

    1Jo 3:15  
Whosoever hateth his brother IS A MURDERER: and ye know that no MURDERER hath eternal life abiding in him.[/list:u]

Not what we usually think of when we think of a "murderer", aye??  :shock:

Oh no, I never  "killed" anybody!!   8-[  :oops:  

Better to put the darkness behind us and walk as children of LIGHT:

    Eph 5:8  For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord:
walk as children of light:[/list:u]


Blessings,
Chrissie
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