Everyone "raised" in the church?

[rumpelstiltskin]

Really?  Not one person on this forum is from a nonbelieving background? I'm the only one? Surely not! I do know of people that God called out of agnostic or even atheist families, but they are all still in Babylon. Most mainstream Christian doctrines I had to learn from Ray's papers, not in a church.     So I'm the only one? Ok then, I guess that's fair enough. Ray was saying in one of his sermons, that he has a friend who he meets with once a week, and all the talk about over lunch is scripture. Now that would be an interesting discusion between any inward Jews, I have never had that, and it must be a nice thing to be able to do in a face to face situation.

Peace

[longhorn]

T.G.N     I think "Non-Religious" would be a better word than non-believing.  I would bet quite a few on this forum grew up in so called non-religious families.  I know I did.  Our family very rarely attended church even though we were Baptist.  I was raised by two very loving parents, but biblical principles were not a daily teaching theme in our home. 

Longhorn

[byonespirit]

Very close to the same for me as Longhorn.My family was Baptist,but we only went sporadically.I did attend vacation Bible school as a kid for a few summers,and as I look back on it,I can't remember learning very much more than God is love,and a few "lessons" from the four gospels.I believe I did believe in Jesus at a young age,but it didn't seem to make a huge difference in my life.One Sunday,I went to church alone(cause I could walk there,it was so close),and a deacon or someone asked me,'Where is the rest of your family?"I was a bit self conscious back then,and that really embarrassed me,and I didn't go back to church for a long time.When I was a young teen,I remember reading in the NT where Jesus said to "deny your self...".WELL! I had NO clue what that meant!What?How can anybody "DENY" their self.WE ARE a self, so how in the world do we deny that?lol It wasn't until I was 25 years old that I really had a conversion to Jesus Christ,and it was nowhere near a church.,and after that,I kinda knew what denying self was all about.What was strange with me then was that I started reading the scriptures with understanding;it was alive to me.And I didn't go to church at all...and i could see many of the false doctrines in churches.   ....anyway, i could go on and on,but I will close for now.Pray for the devastated peoples in Japan,that is so tragic.
           Ben

[rumpelstiltskin]

Hello John from Kentucky, Longhorn, Byonespirit,
There you go! That's what I was waiting to hear!. My experience with church attending Christians is that the only people they know are other Christians (if you can call them that). This amazes me, because I consider myself a Christian and I don't know any. Strangers and sojourners, no doubt.

Non- religious most likely is a better word. The King James uses unbeliever's which is why I used that word. People also use atheist and I thought maybe agnostic most appropriate for my family and  friends, all are very loving people too, and is one reason I believe in the salvation of all.

I,m happy to see that not everyone has had a blond haired, blue eyed image of Christ shoved in there face almost from birth, and I pity those who have.
I have a sister  in law who is from Japan, so yes pray for them all!

One more thing, Ray talks in one of his conferences about worshipping in spirit and truth (between you and God) I cant remember which audio it was, but I think It was one of the worship sermons, or maybe in one of his papers. That's all a lot of us can do.

Thank you for welcoming me to the forum

Peace

T.G.N

[Extol]

Hi T.G.N.,
Here are some emails from Ray regarding the scattered believers:

Dear Josh:
Looking forward to seeing you at our Conference.
Most of the Elect of the world have no fellow Believers to fellowship with. We are the "salt of the earth."  By the very nature of this parable, we are to be scattered and not clumped all together in little piles.  Jesus asked if there would be faith in the earth when He returns?  Of course not.  But consider, if there were a dozen or so chosen Elect in your city, and in every other city of the world, then there would ben MILLIONS of believers on earth today who have faith. This is clearly not the case.
What we need to understand is that our true fellowship is with Jesus Christ and God His Father.(I Cor. 1:9;  II Cor. 6:14;  I John 1:3;  II Cor. 13:14, etc.).
God be with you,
Ray

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,1533.0.html

Dear Robin:
You are right; True believers are few and scattered. I know of no study group in Iowa that teaches the Truths of God.  The few we know of are posted at the bottom of our home page. You can, if you wish, join our Forum at the bottom of our home page. We are opening a brand new forum in the next day or two. You will find some people there who believe and practice the Truths of God.
God be with you,
Ray

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,22.0.html

> I read your message about the heresies of the church.
> I agree with you concerning what you explained in
> great detail. I have seen and experienced much of
> what you discussed. Of the churches I have attended:
> where is there a place to worship that is not corrupted by
> such heresies? Please, respond I trully need your advise.
> Ronald


I don't know, Ronald, but if you find one be sure to le me know, okay?
Maybe Jesus told the truth after all when He said that His followers were
like the SALT of the earth rather than like LUMPY GRAVY?
God be with you,
Ray

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2932.0.html

And here is an excerpt from the Mobile 2009 conference about true worship:

WE ARE ADMONISHED TO ASSEMBLE TOGETHER:

Now we are admonished to assemble ourselves together and it is a difficult thing when you live in Great Britain and central Mexico and northern Canada and all of that. But we are here today and you know we are making a jolly good effort. As Jesus say;

Matt 18:20  For where two or three are gathered together in My name, there am I in the midst of them.

Heb 10:25  Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another...

1John 1:7  But if we walk in the light, as He is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.

So hopefully that is what we are doing here. We are assembling... trying to get the true knowledge of God... we are hopefully humbling ourselves... we are determined to walk in the light... learn God's Truth... we are having fellowship one with another... the end result is we will be cleansed from all our sin! How good is that! That's a good thing. Right? That's worship.

We are worshipping here. We are not singing, we are not dancing, we are not falling over backwards and foaming at the mouth or speaking in mumbo jumbo. But we are here, we are assembling, we are fellowshipping, we will hopefully have a humble attitude, we are hungry and thirsty for God's Truth. That's WORSHIP! We are worshipping. Do you follow?

Well what about all the days we don't assemble? Well you don't have to be in a physical assembly to worship. Just follow instruction.

John 4:21  Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe Me, the hour cometh, when you shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.
v. 22  You worship you know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
v. 23  But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshipers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeks such to worship Him.
v. 24  God is a ('a' is not in the Greek) Spirit: and they that worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him.

Not that you can, but you "MUST worship Him in spirit and in truth." Not that you can or can't, you "must." We must worship "in spirit and in truth."  There's the answer as to how, when and where we are to WORSHIP God.

When Israel was condemned for idolatry, they didn't worship "in truth." Those statures and stuff that they bow down to, that's not truth and it's not spiritual, but very physical. You can bust the nose off of those gods.


REAL TRUE AND SPIRITUAL WORSHIP IS OBEDIENCE

So 'true' worship is obedience to the truth! All of the truth, all of God's word. To know what that is you have got to pay attention to all the words. I'm going to show you a couple of examples of how I do that and why I can take any truth of God and just keep going with it, there is no end.

Matt 4:10  Then said Jesus unto him, Get you hence, Satan: for it is written, You shall worship the Lord your God, and Him only shall you serve.

Luke 6:46  And why call ye Me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

Rom 12:1  I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

That's worship!

Mat 22:37  Jesus said unto him, you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.

That's worship!

John 14:21  He that hath My commandments, and keeps them, he it is that loves Me:

That's worship!

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,11521.0.html

Cheers!
Jesse

[rumpelstiltskin]

Thank you Extol for taking the time to find those emails, I may have read them before but have since forgotten so thanks for bringing them to my attention. The excerpt you you gave from Ray's conference was the same one I was thinking of in my reply to the other forum users. All I can say is "Thank God for that!!"

Peace

[santikos]

i actually think it would be interesting to speak to someone who has no babylonian indoctronation and has come to know the truth. as a person who was in the "church" it is easy to read the bible sometime with preconcieved teachings from church. And yes it is a lonely road. all the prophets were alone, they did not have a following and their messages were, for the most part, not recieved. Even Jesus, as the end of his ministry, was abandoned.

[DougE6]

Hello Santikos

My natural impulse is to preach. I want to know if someone HAS to go through Babylon in order to be called out of it, to embrace these truths; or does Babylon also include not being in church.  I preach a LOT to athiests, as I have a fair amount of athiest friends.  They can never really out argue the truth, like they can eternal torment, and traditional christian beliefs,  but their hearts are not ready...not yet anyway.  I also preach to all my Babylon friends, at the proper time and place, usually in small snippets.  Though when the situ permits, I let it fly.

I cannot just sit by and be all to myself only.  I want to take the greatest news, the true good news, to as many as possible, not to debate, but to convert!  Should not the real truth have great power to convert?  Or is babylon a absolutely essential step. maybe I should email Ray this question. Any takers? Is Babylon a very necessary prerequisite?

Doug

[Extol]

Doug,

I've been wondering this lately, as I have been pondering having children in the future. How would I raise them, if Babylon is a necessary step? How will I teach them the truths of God? Naturally, I would like to teach them the wonderful news that I've learned from this website and the Scriptures. But should I try to do that, or must I send them to a church for them to come out of first? This may be getting a bit off topic but I'm curious to know if anyone here has had children (after already knowing the Truth), and if so, how do you teach them?

Jesse 

[G. Driggs]

I was raised up going to church, but for the most part my kids weren't. My kids know what I believe, and I occasionally share with them what I have learned here.

Almost a year ago my 13 year old daughter started going to the local baptist church with a friend, but I didn't try to stop her. I did however tell her to be careful about what they teach and she eventually quit going. I even asked her if she "got saved" to which she said yes. I couldn't help but to chuckle and give her one of them I understand smiles. I honestly can't remember if I explained to her that saying a 12 sec sinners prayer doesn't really save you.

So I guess I wouldn't worry it about it too much. If God wants them to go to church then they will. I know no matter what that they will eventually be saved.

I think its good to share with them what I've learned here, but I think it's more important to teach them by example. Words don't mean squat if I can't "walk the talk". 

G.Driggs

[Dave in Tenn]

2Th 2:3.4  Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Rev 18:1-4  And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.  And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.  For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.  And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

Rev. 2:1-29   ...He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches...

The Kingdom of heaven is like...Many are called, but few are chosen.

It's absolutely essential to the plan and purpose of God that there be A Church and HIS church existing in the world.

Even if a child is brought up with the Doctrinal truths of God, he or she still has to fall away, see the beast rising out of the sea, the man of sin and the son of perdition, and 'come out of her' to be counted as one of God's people.  Everybody has had to do that since Adam.  This is why I'm not a "unviversalist".  That doesn't necessarily mean that he or she needs to wind up on the streets shooting heroin into his or her eyeballs.  We are saved "BY GRACE...THROUGH FAITH".  We can 'fall away' and see the 'man of sin, son of Perdition, beast' by faith.  Indeed, that's the only way we CAN see.

*corrected a misquotation of Scripture* 

[Revilonivek]

Dave,

The Kingdom of God is like...Many are called, but few are chosen.

You know why?

Kingdom of God is a state of mind, that is of christ consciousness

I wonder how anyone can overcome the flesh as it is very hard to do.. of course, not impossible without God in you.

JEsus said the kingdom of God is within us.. it is our state of mind... goal is to reach christ consciousness(His Kingdom) Luke 17:21 (King James Version)

21Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

I think Gandhi is truly a saint of God, he has dedicated himself to the service of humanity-  he said he cannot both serve flesh and spirit and committed to a life of celibacy after about 37 years, after having four children.  He said he doesn't even look in the mirror either.  He fasts often to fight for others rights, he puts others ahead of himself. He believes in nonviolence. He said hindu and christianity believes very similar on nonviolence, and he said when his college friends showed him scripture of the holy bible, the part where it told him to turn the other cheek when someone hits you, it was when it struck him that the beliefs in hindu and Christianity were so similar. Someone once tried to turn him into an idol, because he did something great for them, he protested and said it was not him that healed them but God.  and before he died, he was trying to unite both hindu and moslems, to help them get along, but unfortunately, when he was walking to a platform where his seat was, someone decided to shoot Gandhi three times, but right before he died, he called out, Hey Rama, which means O God!  He dedicated his life to God and others.

It helps to lose ourselves in the service of others, because it is what it is about. helping others as you would have done for yourself. He overcame the world. just like Jesus did. he did it by doing service for others.

[DougE6]

Hi Jesse

Doug,I've been wondering this lately, as I have been pondering having children in the future. How would I raise them, if Babylon is a necessary step? How will I teach them the truths of God?

This is one of the very reasons I asked this question!! If Babylon is a necessary step, what do we do? I have three kids, now 19, 16, and 11.  The 19 and 16 year old know what I believe very well.  My older two understand and I think it will stay with them.  My 19 year old is wrestling with the world, she knows my beliefs very well, and I have a very good relationship with her that we talk about nearly everything, so I am letting God do his work..But she needs to internalize for herself, and that is part of life..Unfortunately her current boyfriend is agnostic, so there is tug of war, but what is new? there is always tug of war! She knows I would prefer a believer...I just have to exercise faith in God is in control. I am just starting to teach my 11 year old now, in bits and pieces, every few days or so. But we talk about the things of God in my household all the time. My 16 year old loves going to an Assembly of God Youth Group.  He loves the worship and the like, but he can't fathom why they can live with their eternal torment beliefs.  But I am not taking him away from that church, because I am not afraid of them at all, and he must be allowed to experience and compare, as I did, in my 20 years in babylon.  But he has a great leg up, so to speak, because of our many talks and my example...I have him a lot more time than they do!  And it doesn't seem to have hurt him at all, he really loves the things of God.  I think that we must teach by example and by our lives, and trust in the work of God. it seems like many opportunities arise to compare and contrast various doctrines they learn with the scriptures, to discuss amongst the family these things.  I am VERY PASSIONATE in my beliefs and they feel it and know it. they tell me our family is much different than their friends.  I have a lot of faith and I expect them to all go through times of testing, like I have, I just want to ground them as much as possible.  God knows exactly what path each must walk to bring them to where He wants them to go.

[DougE6]

Jesus did not convert anyone while He was on the earth as a human being.  It was only after His resurrection, when the Holy Spirit was given, that the Church was formed and humans began to be converted.  The sequence is that the Father selects and drags one to Jesus; then the Spirit of the Father through Jesus does the converting.  One human is absolutely worthless at converting another human.  As with everything else, all is from the Father.

As true as this is, I must say two or three things...(1) We now do have the Holy Spirit given (2) we are instructed to preach by the scriptures...Rom 10:14  How can people have faith in the Lord and ask him to save them, if they have never heard about him? And how can they hear, unless someone tells them?
Rom 10:15  And how can anyone tell them without being sent by the Lord? The Scriptures say it is a beautiful sight to see even the feet of someone coming to preach the good news.
So I disagree that one human is "absolutely worthless" in the process of conversion. We need to hear from other human beings so God can convert. God uses human beings, to do this work. Is that not EXACTLY what that scripture says?

[Craig]

John and Doug you are arguing against yourselves.  Mostly right, but enough wrong to hurt.

John what you say is true" a human cannot convert another human"  but God often uses humans to bring about this conversion.  So us humans are not "worthless" in this process.  You are taking the use of humans out of the process when often we are the tool God uses.

Doug you are putting too much emphasis on the humans and preaching.  I'm pulling this number out of my hat but I would say 99% of us are not called to "preach" to anyone or to teach for that matter.  However we all want to do this and fail miserably.  We are called to be a light in a dark world, and if and when God uses us to help as he calls a person to him we should study to show ourselves approved to answer whatever questions come our way.  The best sermons are the ones we live not the ones we talk about.

So you both are at the ends of the same rope, one says do nothing and the other says we do it all; when actually we should be in the middle where God can use us.

JMO
Craig

[rumpelstiltskin]

Dave in Tenn and Craig's posts made me see a truth I had not picked up on before. If I had I would not have posted the original subject. Doug if your reading this don't bother sending Ray that email, you may get a responce but I doubt it. 

Thank you Dave in Tenn and Craig

[DougE6]

Deu 11:19  Teach them to your children. Talk about them all the time--whether you're at home or walking along the road or going to bed at night, or getting up in the morning.

Pro 22:6  Teach your children right from wrong, and when they are grown they will still do right.

Eph 6:4  Parents, don't be hard on your children. Raise them properly. Teach them and instruct them about the Lord.

Tit 2:7  Always set a good example for others. Be sincere and serious when you teach.

1Ti 4:16  Be careful about the way you live and about what you teach. Keep on doing this, and you will save not only yourself, but the people who hear you.

I think it is my responsibility and I am commanded to teach my children and my household. If I do not, then I have shirked my duty before God.

[Kat]

Hi Doug,

Yes I agree that we should certainly teach our children truth. I did raise my children in church and when we left I explained why I did. Now that they are grown (27, 22 and 20) they have different ideas and will make their own decisions about going to church and I think one daughter does plan on taking her children to a church.

But of course a parent wants to give their children as much knowledge as they can to deal with life in this world and these instructions are very good for them, but can only go so far. Ultimately they make their own choices and it is likely to some degree to not be the ones we would have chosen for them to do, but it seems we all have to learn many lessons the hard way, through trial and error. But you, as a parent, will be there for them to turn to in times of need.

There are a few places Ray speaks about going into the church.


http://bible-truths.com/lake13.html -----------------------------------------

WHEN FIRST WE SEE THE BEAST

Why is John standing on the sand of the sea when he first sees the wild beast rise out of the sea? Why isn't he standing on solid rock when first he sees this wild beast? Because standing on the sand of the sea depicts our spiritual condition at the time that we see a wild beast come up out of the sea. When we see the wild beast, God shows us our vulnerability.

We are standing DEFENSELESS on the sand of the sea!

There is a spiritual process that God takes His called and elect through that only the few ever experience. The common opinion seems to be that one can become sick and tired of his sinful ways, and so turn to Jesus Christ to get him out of his mess. Once he has accepted Jesus as his Saviour, it is presumed that all will begin to go well with the new convert.

Finances will improve, health will improve, our social life will improve, and certainly our spiritual life will improve. As we study and pray and go to church, it is believed that one will progress further and further until one's life is nearly perfect. In fact, if one is still having trials and tribulations after decades in a church, it is assumed by all that that person is not living right and that God is cursing him for some sin or disobedience.

I showed you in a previous installment that the very first thing that Jesus pointed out as a spiritual flaw in the first of the Seven Churches, was that they "LEFT their first love."

This is referred to in fundamental circles as "backsliding." But, supposedly, only a few ever "backslide." Most, it is assumed, just keep growing and growing from grace to grace until they die a happy death of old age.

The Seven [COMPLETE] Churches of God represent the WHOLE CHURCH OF GOD in all generations. And so, what is it that God says those who are ALREADY IN THE CHURCH have to do if they are to overcome and be in the Kingdom of God? Answer:

"Remember therefore from whence you are FALLEN, and REPENT..." (Rev. 2:5).

Repent of WHAT? Repent of "...leaving your FIRST LOVE."

But you say, "I have never left my first love." Well then, this Scripture isn't speaking to you. But everyone who does make it into the Kingdom, does leave his first love. There are those, however, who have left their first love, AND DON'T EVEN KNOW IT! Repenting will come especially hard for them, as they see nothing to repent of.

Whenever someone is called of God and he repents, is baptized, confirmed, initiated, or whatever, it is into a church. And sooner or later that particular church will bring you to the point where you will leave your first love for God and turn to the church and its religion as the idol of your heart. God calls His people OUT of the Babylonish System of Religion which has a strangle hold on 'The Church.'

"Mystery Babylon the Great" is a CHURCH! But it is also A SPIRITUAL WHORE:

"For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answers to JERUSALEM which now is, and is in bondage with HER CHILDREN. But Jerusalem which is ABOVE is free, which is the MOTHER OF US ALL" (Gal. 4:25-26).

Jerusalem above is our MOTHER. Jerusalem below is also a MOTHER with children in bondage. Revelation speaks clearly of this Mother and her Children:

"And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will show unto you the judgment of the GREAT WHORE that sits upon many waters [peoples and nations and tongues]:

With whom the kings of the earth have committed [spiritual] FORNICATION, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.

So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a WOMAN [a church] sit upon a scarlet colored WILD BEAST, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.

And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet color, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls [possessing many of the blessings of God including the pearls of God's Word], having a gold cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

And upon her forehead was a name written,

MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT,
THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND
ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH"
(Rev. 17:1-5).

And now for one of the most amazing Truths in all Revelation:

"And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, "Come out of her [Mystery Babylon the Great], MY PEOPLE, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues" (Rev. 18:4).

GOD CALLS HIS PEOPLE OUT OF THE VERY CHURCH THAT HE CALLED THEM INTO!

"Many are called but few are chosen" (Matt. 22:14).

Few realize that there is a "church WITHIN the church." When God chooses us FROM AMONG the called, we become separate from their doctrines and sins. We are still "The Church of the Living God," but we are a peculiar people that no longer follows the traditions of men, which the many called who are building the house upon the sand continue to follow.

Therefore, WE WILL SEE THE BEAST that comes up out of the sea. We will be forced to WAR with the beast from the sea. And we will be OVERCOME by the wild beast. This really is serious business.


http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php?topic=3720.0 ---------------------

1 John 4:14 - "The Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world."
The churches say it will never happen, isn't that disgusting.  God Almighty commissioned His Son to be the Savior of the world.  He said, Son I'm going to send You down there to be the Savior of the world, and all the ministers say as one, it will never happen, You can never pull it off God.  Who do you think  you are, is what they say to God.  It's incredible how that the biggest blasphemers of God Almighty, is the church.
But don't be to hard on them.  Let me tell you something.  God doesn't call everybody to be one of His favorite chosen, elect, except from the church.  So we don't want to poo poo the church too bad, because that's where He gets the elect from.  I have never heard or known of an atheist converting and becoming one of God's elect.  They always go into the church first, to be corrupted by the church and then they're shown the truth and they come out.

Rev 18:4  "And I heard another voice from Heaven, saying, Come out of her, My people,"

Where are God's people, in the corrupt church of Babylon.

Rev 17:5  "And on her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH."

God said, guess what that's where My people are.  But they are not His elect until He elects them out. Then they become His chosen favorites, as will the rest, but not yet.


http://bible-truths.com/putout.html ----------------------------------------

[Ray Replies]

Dear Kathy:

I can certainly identity with your situation. I have personally, as have ALL who eventually come to the Truth, gone through numerous "harlots of the Great Whore" before God opened my mind up to His spiritual Truths.  There is a line in a hymn that goes: "Where could I go but TO THE LORD?"

When you find GOD, Kathy, your search for the right "church" will be over!!!

I do not belong to, nor do I attend, ANY institutionalized church of men. I am, however, a member of The Body of Christ--The Church of THE LIVING GOD. And those of us that I am aware of, have to travel many hundreds of miles to occasionally fellowship together (as I did this past weekend, traveling a total of fourteen hundreds miles to gather with others of like mind for the weekend).

Sometimes our fellowship is only with Jesus Christ and our Heavenly Father, but that's okay.

I have had many Jehovah's Witnesses read my material on our site. Most have little interest in the Truth, however.

May God grant you the insight to be different.   Unfortunately, you have had to experience this profound prophecy in your own family:

"These things have I spoke unto you, that ye should not be offended. They shall put you out of the synagogues [or kingdom halls]; yea, the time comes, that whosoever kills you [or your brother-in-law] will think that he does God service" (John 16:1)!!

And why do they do such cowardly and evil things to the flock?

"And these things will they do unto you, because they have NOT KNOWN THE FATHER, NOR ME [Jesus Christ]" (Verse 3)!!!

Don't sorrow, Kathy, but rather REJOICE that you have been accounted worthy so suffer such things for your faith in Jesus Christ!

Let me know if you have any specific questions on anything, or if I can be of any other help to you in this time of severe trial.

God be with you,

Ray

[daywalker]

Doug,

I've been wondering this lately, as I have been pondering having children in the future. How would I raise them, if Babylon is a necessary step? How will I teach them the truths of God? Naturally, I would like to teach them the wonderful news that I've learned from this website and the Scriptures. But should I try to do that, or must I send them to a church for them to come out of first? This may be getting a bit off topic but I'm curious to know if anyone here has had children (after already knowing the Truth), and if so, how do you teach them?

Jesse 

Babylon is bigger than the Church. Babylon is a system. You don't have to be Christian to be under Babylonian influence. Many people, though not of Christian faith, still believe in many pagan and false teachings/ideas. Just look at all the t.v. shows these days about aliens, ghosts, the afterlife, etc. I enjoy watching sci-fi movies just as much as the next guy. But at the end of the show, I know it's just that--"fiction". Many people, however, believe in these things--it's not just fiction to them. Most people in this world still believe that when we die, we are still "alive" somehow, somewhere. This is the power Babylonian influence has even in today's modern "scientific" age. These beliefs trace all the way back in time to Ancient Babylon and then even further to Ancient Egypt, long before Moses, long before the Hebrews became their slaves.

Ray discusses some of this in the "hell" section of his Lake of Fire series.

[Marky Mark]

Babylon is bigger than the Church. Babylon is a system. You don't have to be Christian to be under Babylonian influence.

Babylon is you, me, and every human being that has ever been born. When one begins to understand what the Word of God is and how it should be lived within all of us, then, and only then, can we come out of her, which is, all of the false doctrines [any mindset against Jesus and His Truth] which have polluted our lives within each and everyone of us.The Spiritual applications that pertain to all of the earth also includes the sea as well.

Eph 2:3  Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

Rev 18:1  And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.
Rev 18:2  And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
Rev 18:3  For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.
Rev 18:4  And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

2Ti 2:3  Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.
2Ti 2:4  No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier.

John 10:4  And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.
John 10:5  And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.

Rev 13:1  And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

Psa 51:5  Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

Jer 18:4  And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.

Matt 4:4  But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Matt 24:35  Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

Mark 14:37  And he cometh, and findeth them sleeping , and saith unto Peter, Simon, sleepest thou? couldest not thou watch one hour?
Mark 14:38  Watch ye and pray, lest ye enter into temptation. The spirit truly is ready, but the flesh is weak.


Num 16:32  And the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed them up, and their houses, and all the men that appertained unto Korah, and all their goods.
Num 16:33  They, and all that appertained to them, went down alive into the pit, and
the earth closed upon them: and they perished from among the congregation.

1 Cor 2:14  But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.




Peace...Mark