An open letter

[Dave in Tenn]

This was my "introduction" post from the time I joined the forum.  It's hardly complete, but I shared my heart as much as I was comfortable and able at the time.  Read it if you want.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,7572.msg60263.html#msg60263

What I wanted from the forum, I could encapsulate like this.  1.  To fellowship with others having come out of Babylon.  2.  To gain some wisdom from others about how to LIVE and LIVE WITH these truths.

Has this happened after all this time?  Results are mixed.  I could say that to a great measure it has lived up to my hopes for my own involvement...even from posters with whom I don't have any particular history of exchanges with, as well as from others who I have come to treasure in this admittedly limited internet way.  I'd name names, but I'd leave some out for sure.  Trust me, it matters not how much you post, but how you've posted that has been a frequent blessing to me.

There's another more unexpected benefit from our exchange.  I've learned to love people I wouldn't even LIKE in real life, and to be more patient and understanding that my struggles are not everybody struggles, and that people are hurting in ways I can't always see.  As Ray said, if we want a blessing, we need to BE a blessing and a help for each other.

That said, there have also been times and episodes when the forum has failed to live up to my hopes for it and to the hopes I believe it had for itself when it was created.  I've encountered a few outright charlatans, numerous "hobbyists", amateur theologians, any number of people coming to say "don't follow Ray' when without exception the subtext was "follow me", and one circular argument after another which CANNOT be carnally resolved, even with all the Scripture in the world.

I've endured crassness, and pointlessness, and arguments, and the worship of Idols of the Heart, and "do as I say, not as I do" Pharisees and people trying to bring me back into the bondage from which I had escaped--not just religious bondage, but the bondage of depression and cynicism and depravity, much of which flowed quite naturally from my time in Babylon and as a reaction to it.  I've met people who say they love the truth, but wouldn't know a truth if it bit them on the butt.

And I've also endured episodes when I too was guilty of these same things and worse.  Even worse, because I was moderator. 

Truth be told, I may be fairly diplomatic, but I am not moderate.  I've spent many weeks, days and hours agonizing over compete and utter crap.  I've felt like leaving more times than I can count.

So how do I take it as a whole?  And am I alone in both my desires for involvement in the forum and in the forum itself as it was meant to be?

I'm not sorry I joined, nor am I sorry I've stayed.  I am sorry for being a big, fat hypocrite at times.  My "sorrow" over becoming a moderator ebbs and flows.  I've grown up enough to recognize that most (if not all) of the challenges faced participating here are PRECISELY the challenges faced by the Apostles and the early church.  In my isolation, it has been what the early church fellowship was--a battle against carnal-mindedness, and a sorting of the called and the chosen.  I don't know which I am, but I understand much better the "rejoicing" to be done when encountering all manner of trials.  This I did not expect those years ago, but the Lord is Lord.

So am I alone in this assessment of mixed results and general direction?  I'm not asking for replies.  In fact, I COULD use my vast forum super-powers and lock this thread as soon as it's posted.    But I'm not alone, trust me.

We must not become a church.  We must not become LIKE a denomination.  We must not think of the "forum" as "the elect of God." 

We must get the forum back to a place welcoming to "real people".  I know that it CAN be, because it often IS.  And when it is, it's good.

"We must continue to remember those early days when, after we were enlightened, we endured a long and painful struggle."  Let's not have to "endure" it completely alone.       

[Rene]

We, the Moderators, have been very concerned about the state of this forum of late, which prompted Dave to post the above statement.

Here is a definition of "Fellowship" that we may want to keep in mind as we come together on this forum:

Fellowship - "The companionship of individuals in a congenial atmosphere and on equal terms sharing similar interests, ideals, or experiences."


As we come together to fellowship on this forum, let us please keep in mind the forum rules.  These rules are not difficult to follow if leave our pride at the door and open our hearts to honest fellowship.

THE IMPORTANT STUFF:

This forum and how it is moderated, is different than most all religious based forums on the internet so please read carefully.

If you are considering joining this forum before reading and studying  www.bible-truths.com, please reconsider.
It would be beneficial to all involved if you take the time to familiarize yourself with the teaching of L.Ray Smith first.

This is not the place to decide if you agree with the teaching of L.Ray Smith, but a place you can retreat to when you do.

This forum is primarily a place for people of a like mind to fellowship, and secondarily to discuss and question what they learn on bible-truths.com.

If you seriously disagree with Ray, the members may be able to help you with understanding, but debate will not be tolerated.

If you come here to teach us, please take your teaching elsewhere.

THIS FORUM IS NOT TO BE USED TO DEBATE RELIGIOUS TOPICS

Please do not make sport of persons who email Ray.

No preaching (including preaching via links).

Links are not allowed if a site or article brings its own teaching or preaching.  Links are allowed if a site it just for fun or informational, ie, you tube, google translator, Esword, etc.

No using this forum as a recruiting ground to other forums, by pm's or public posting.

This is the Bible-Truths.com forum.  We've not gathered together to discuss other websites and ministries. 

No inappropriate language or profanity allowed.

No name-calling.

This forum is moderated, if you feel you cannot accept the bounds of a limited forum then don't join.  The moderators do not have the time to explain every decision to you on why a post was deleted, so don't expect it.

The moderators will generally try to remove posts before banning a member, don't take it personally.  If you see your posts being removed then perhaps you should review what you are writing to make sure is goes along with the forum rules.  If you are asked to let a subject drop, or a particular subject is off limits then please abide by what the moderators ask.  Don't necessarily expect a reason for the request, many things go on behind the scenes of the forum and the moderators are doing what they feel is best.

If you have a problem with a moderator, the way the forum is managed, or another user of the forum then address this through private mails.  Publicly airing your grievances could be grounds for banishment, and will get your post deleted.

Learn to use the private mail function.  If you don't know how then ask.

Thank you for your cooperation.

[onelovedread]

Dave and Rene
I really appreciate you guys and the efforts of all the other moderators to keep things "in balance".
If I get out of line or offend anyone, please correct me as I mean nothing personally.
Thank you again, guys.
John Chris

[Rhys 🕊]

Thanks for the read Dave. I have my challenges too but you and the mods do a good job.

Blessings

Rhys

[lilitalienboi16]

I never looked at the forums as a church, a denomination or the elect.

Maybe that's just me. Maybe being of the generation that I am, I bring a unique perspective filled with its benefits and its problems. All these things I carry within me as well.

It is for the reasons you speak that I became frustrated with the forums and abandoned it entirely. I left and did some soul searching. I had been, in a few short years, bombarded with spiritual truths that threw me into a spin of confusions. I was a highschool kid wrestling with things that were far beyond me. Ultimately I was humbled and made it through that tough time to return here amongst people I knew were mostly of like mind.

I recently told doug in another thread, this place is a place of refuge. I stand by that statement. We have as rene and john echoed, an eclectic group here. I fully believe that, we are all being molded and uniquely fashioned by our God.

I've been apart of the problems at time as well. I'm human but I've had a great family in my brothers and sisters who have rebuked me as opposed to given me secret love. A family of brothers and sisters who have encouraged me and prayed fervently for me in my time of need. For that, I am so very grateful. I guess that's all we can do. Strive forward, encouraging one another to run race and being open with one another, even if that means sometimes telling it like it is. Open rebuke is better than secret love!

God bless,
Alex

[arion]

Because of God's provision and Ray's efforts we have enough material here between the writings, the audios and the videos to last someone many years.  I just recently started the Lake of Fire series again and I'm picking up things that I didn't see the previous times.  Nobody here has 'arrived' as of yet and I'm bothered when some members attempt to teach or seem to Lord it over others at times.  One of the difficulties with the Internet is you can't read body language or tone of voice like you can in the real world so at times it's hard to discern where the other person is coming from.

We are all on a solitary journey that God has designed for each and every one of us.  Some of us are further along that journey than others and that is something we've got to keep in mind.  There are people still in the process of discovering the truths that we hold dear.  As far as the fellowship aspect that is a tough one and difficult to do through a keyboard.  The reason I call it a solitary journey is in reality it's between you and God.  Your certainly not going to find fellowship in an institutional church of man and even here it's quite limited simply because of the nature of the Internet.

I guess don't expect too much even out of this forum from my perspective.  We've got a lot of truth here but only God can impart that truth to our hearts and He is going to do that in his timing and ways and not ours.  I guess more than anything is we need to remember that nobody should attempt to teach here.  If Ray hasn't discussed something then move on or go to any one of a myriad of Christian forums where the opinions on everything under the sun flow like oil.  Legalism is insidious and it always appears under the cloak of spirituality and righteousness.  All of us [me to] have to remember that beast inside that is always attempting to bring us back into spiritual bondage. 

[rickylittleton]

One of the mistakes I have made from time to time is looking at my self, and trying to mold and make my self into what I think God wants me to be, instead of trusting and obeying in God Himself into molding and making me into the vessel He wants me to be. When we start, or I should say when I start looking at my self, I see so many points of what I must do! But when I remember to trust God, in that He holds and control my life in His will and in His hands, I can see that it is He who molds and makes me. It is a hard thing to unlearn the things we have lived most of our lives in; organize church, denominations, etc.....! I have found that it's takes some getting used to being not apart of  the religious things that one can say help made up the society we live in. My advice is to " TRUST IN THE LORD WITH ALL THINE HEART, AND LEAN NOT TO THY ONE UNDERSTANDING....". Just giving my little 2 cents in. Timothy

[Dennis Vogel]

One of the mistakes I have made from time to time is looking at my self, and trying to mold and make my self into what I think God wants me to be, instead of trusting and obeying in God Himself into molding and making me into the vessel He wants me to be. When we start, or I should say when I start looking at my self, I see so many points of what I must do! But when I remember to trust God, in that He holds and control my life in His will and in His hands, I can see that it is He who molds and makes me. It is a hard thing to unlearn the things we have lived most of our lives in; organize church, denominations, etc.....! I have found that it's takes some getting used to being not apart of  the religious things that one can say help made up the society we live in. My advice is to " TRUST IN THE LORD WITH ALL THINE HEART, AND LEAN NOT TO THY ONE UNDERSTANDING....". Just giving my little 2 cents in. Timothy

[ez2u]

this is really a very honest open post that has been a long time coming.  i don't have anything to say but enjoying reading what everyone wrote  thanks for opening up and sharing