First People

[ML]

Wonderful thoughts guys ❤️

Eph 3:14  For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, 
Eph 3:15  of whom the whole family in the heavens and on earth is named, 
Eph 3:16  that He may give to you, according to the riches of His glory, with might to be strengthened through His Spirit, in regard to the inner man, 
Eph 3:17  that the Christ may dwell through the faith in your hearts, in love having been rooted and founded, 
Eph 3:18  that ye may be in strength to comprehend, with all the saints, what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height, 
Eph 3:19  to know also the love of the Christ that is exceeding the knowledge, that ye may be filled—to all the fulness of God; 
Eph 3:20  and to Him who is able above all things to do exceeding abundantly what we ask or think, according to the power that is working in us, 
Eph 3:21  to Him is the glory in the assembly in Christ Jesus, to all the generations of the age of the ages. Amen. 

Rom 8:38  For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, 
Rom 8:39  Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. 

[Dave in Tenn]

Beyond that, scripture itself doesn't require me to believe that Samson slew exactly 1000 philistines with the literal jaw-bone of a literal a@@.  It does require me to believe in the death and Resurrection of Jesus.  And I do.  When I left the church and went into the world with a passion, only He "remained" of my ever-dimming faith until He himself was almost extinguished.  He is Lord, and no bible character old or new is more important than Him.  Since Jesus, I don't care any more about Samson, Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, Job, or David.  He is Lord of the living.

Dave (or anyone) could you explain what you mean when you say "scripture requires me to believe"?

What do you mean by "requires" and how do you define "believe"?

Thanks

I won't argue with the answers given on my behalf.  They are certainly true of me, and continue to be.  But when a question is asked or a concern raised "topically" or about a certain "topic", the easiest way to answer is according to the topic. 

Jesus is Savior of the whole world, but (and) especially those who believe.  What is "salvation" from unbelief if it isn't belief?  In this way too, "belief" is "required".  But that is not the best way to put it, I admit.       

[lareli]

My question was more about the definition of "believe" as in the way Dave used it.. "scripture requires me to believe in the death burial resurrection of Jesus Christ"

When you say "believe" do you mean an intellectual agreement that something is true? As in you believe that 2000+ years ago there was a literal man who literally and physically died, was buried and came back to life physically and literally?

Is this what scripture "requires"?

[indianabob]

Hi Lareli,

Yes that is what I believe.
Otherwise, according to Paul we ourselves have no salvation and are to be most pitied
<1 Corinthians 15:14>

The Resurrection of the Dead

1Co 15:12  Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead? 
1Co 15:13  But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen: 
1Co 15:14  And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain. 
1Co 15:15  Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not. 
1Co 15:16  For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised: 
1Co 15:17  And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins. 
1Co 15:18  Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished. 

1Co 15:19  If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable. 
1Co 15:20  But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. 
1Co 15:21  For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 
1Co 15:22  For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 

[Wanda]

My question was more about the definition of "believe" as in the way Dave used it.. "scripture requires me to believe in the death burial resurrection of Jesus Christ"

When you say "believe" do you mean an intellectual agreement that something is true? As in you believe that 2000+ years ago there was a literal man who literally and physically died, was buried and came back to life physically and literally?

Is this what scripture "requires"?

Color me confused, but didn't we just go around in a silly circle?

Unless you were making this distinct clarification,  for those reading,  who may still not believe Jesus died in the litteral physical sense.

[Dave in Tenn]

"Faith" and "belief" are most often the same word in the original.  It's a word(s) and not just a bible-word.  People "believe" in any number of things.  Yes, there are specific "things" that I am "required" to believe.  If they didn't happen, then my "faith" is in vain/for nothing.  It certainly involves, then, an intellectual agreement that something is true.  That's the basis for faith.  Faith itself, however, is also (even mostly) forward-looking. 

Heb 11:1  Now faith is an assumption of what is being expected, a conviction concerning matters which are not being observed;"
Heb 11:1  And faith is of things hoped for a confidence, of matters not seen a conviction,

see the rest of that chapter for examples.

My question was more about the definition of "believe" as in the way Dave used it.. "scripture requires me to believe in the death burial resurrection of Jesus Christ"

When you say "believe" do you mean an intellectual agreement that something is true? As in you believe that 2000+ years ago there was a literal man who literally and physically died, was buried and came back to life physically and literally?

Is this what scripture "requires"?

[lareli]

Sorry for the confusion.

I'm not so sure that "belief" or even "faith" have so much relation to what I think is true or real as much as they have relation to what I act like is true and real.

[ML]

Sorry for my confusion.

Are you trying to say that you don't think these things are true, but you like believing them because how it affects your life?

[Wanda]

Sorry for the confusion.

I'm not so sure that "belief" or even "faith" have so much relation to what I think is true or real as much as they have relation to what I act like is true and real.

I like this comment.☺ It was worth the confusion.

[lareli]

Sorry for my confusion.

Are you trying to say that you don't think these things are true, but you like believing them because how it affects your life?

I'm saying that my life is the embodiment of my beliefs. My life will reveal to me and to God what my true beliefs are.

In his mind, Peter believed that he would never forsake Christ.

[indianabob]

Sorry for my confusion.

Are you trying to say that you don't think these things are true, but you like believing them because how it affects your life?

I'm saying that my life is the embodiment of my beliefs. My life will reveal to me and to God what my true beliefs are.

In his mind, Peter believed that he would never forsake Christ.

= = =
Hi Lareli,
Yes that is what Peter believed humanly speaking, but that was before he had been gifted with God's spirit was it not? Later he was a changed person...!

I think that gift of understanding faith has a lot to do with what we believe and act upon.

Indiana Bob

[lareli]

Dave I should have asked you (or anyone),  : do you think scripture requires you to believe in the death burial resurrection of Christ literally and physically? Or could the death burial resurrection of Christ be believed in spiritually/psychologically?

[Rene]

Dave I should have asked you (or anyone),  : do you think scripture requires you to believe in the death burial resurrection of Christ literally and physically? Or could the death burial resurrection of Christ be believed in spiritually/psychologically?

I  am going to lock this thread since the original subject "First People" has been well discussed.  The question posted above is a totally different topic.