Many are called, but few are chosen

[eggi]

For many are called, but few chosen. (Mat 22:14 ASV)

The other day I was asked a question by an atheist. The question was: What is the significance of the story of Samson?
Since this was a direct question, I answered him, saying that Samson typifies God's elect. The reason he asked was because he was interested in this story as part of a study on how similar stories were told around the world. He held that Hercules was the same character as Samson.

The next question was:
How can you believe in a god who deliberately chooses only a few to know the truth, and then at a later point that god uses these people to let the other's know the truth, just to show the persons who were not elect that they were wrong?

I think the question is asked in an overly simplified way, but it made me think: Why did God need to show truth only to a few people in this time? Why can't He just show everyone the truth at the same time, give them some fiery trials and just move on?

Here's about how I thought:
Without trials and tribulations there is no way that we can learn any virtues. We can't learn good without knowing evil. If God reveals the truth to everyone at the same time, there will be no trials and tribulations. If God reveals the truth little by little to a few people, both the called and the chosen will have fiery trials and tribulations over a period of time.

So... There's my puny little theory, without any scripture to back it up. Sorry about that. I thought of a few verses, but I don't want to say anything for certain about this subject. I think Ray said something about this in an audio I heard. I pray this thread might cast some light on this topic.
What are your thoughts on this?

God bless you and keep you,
Eirik

[brothertoall]

This is very interesting.

I believe that God started dragging(drawing) me to Him many years ago. While in the church I tried to live for Him by the teachings of man and now that I look back it was always up and down. i had failed at every attempt and this went on for a few years.

I believe it was God's will that I should go through this in order to know that it is all of Him and none of me.

It amazes me how some will say that if God is going to save all then we can just live life to the fullest and we will be saved anyway. BUT it has worked just the opposite with me. Having been revealed the truth of our Father only brings me closer to Him and to be obiedent to Him. I can now believe and follow Him, not in fear, but in love. Not for what I can do for Him but what it is He was,is, and will be doing for me and all.

Am I one of the chosen? I don't know but one thing is certian, He loves me and His mercy indures.

Hope this makes sence.

Thank you Eirik for starting this thread,

bobby(bob)

[dcfreedom]

this is a very interesting subject. i also realize it is borderline questioning God. i did word study on the word chosen and it was very interesting. what was more interesting is the word potter came up so i did a study on that also. i know you are all familiar with Romans 9:20-21, 20 O man! who are you, to be sure, who are answering again to God? That which is molded will not protest to the molder, "Why do you make me thus?"
21 Or has not the potter the right over the clay, out of the same kneading to make one vessel, indeed, for honor, yet one for dishonor? clv
as i looked at this i started to read the whole chapter. i should have known i would find the answer. i would encourage you to read all of chapter 9 in Romans. you will find a witness to this in jeremiah 18, Isaiah 29,30,41 and 45. you will be quite suprized at what you find.

i hope this helps and stimulates more thought

[hillsbororiver]

Hi eggi, in response to the question you asked I agree with what Isaiah and Paul had to say about what we know about the "mind of God,it is" very little. This little understanding we do have will grow day by day as we walk in spirit with Christ, as we study His Word, this is a procedure that takes time and patience, also it is done according to His blueprint and process detail (builder's terms) for each and every one of us.

(Amplified)

Isaiah 40:13 Who has directed the Spirit of the Lord, or as His counselor has taught Him?

Isaiah 40:14 With whom did He take counsel, that instruction might be given Him? Who taught Him the path of justice and taught Him knowledge and showed Him the way of understanding?



Romans 11:34  For who has known the mind of the Lord and who has understood His thoughts, or who has [ever] been His counselor?

It has been revealed that it is the Father's will to have Sons and Daughters, of whom our Lord is the firstfruit, the question could be asked why Jesus first? Why not everyone at once since eventually we will all be there anyway?

Discussing this with an atheist is difficult as they can not see the spiritual things;
   
1 Cor 2:14  But the natural, nonspiritual man does not accept or welcome or admit into his heart the gifts and teachings and revelations of the Spirit of God, for they are folly (meaningless nonsense) to him; and he is incapable of knowing them [of progressively recognizing, understanding, and becoming better acquainted with them] because they are spiritually discerned and estimated and appreciated.

Why were we born when we were? Why were we given the better promise, the New Covenant? Why did God and why does God intend that some will see and others will not? 

From Lake of Fire Part XV  http://bible-truths.com/lake15.html

EVERYTHING HAS A PRECISE APPOINTED TIME

God Almighty is responsible for everything and He brings about everything only at its precise "APPOINTED SEASON AND TIME." Let's read it:

"To every thing there is a season and a time to every purpose under the heaven" (Ecc. 3:1).

The implications of this verse are staggering. The very foundation of human psychology and theology crumbles under the weight of this declaration of God's Word. This is undoubtedly one of the ten most profound Scriptures in the entire Bible.

If we are to be honest and believe this verse, then we must concede that absolutely NOTHING is left out God's profound declaration except man's anti-scriptural theory of "free will."

The word "season" in the KJV is translated from the Hebrew word, z[e]man, and is defined in Strong's Hebrew Dictionary as: "APPOINTED season, occasion, time." And "purpose" is defined as: "pleasure, desire, matter." Sometimes rendered as "purpose" or "event."

Here's a second witness to this grand declaration:

"Because to every purpose [matter or event] there is time and judgment..." (Ecc. 8:6).

And a third witness:

"...for there is a time there for every purpose and for every work" (Ecc. 3:17).

Here are a couple translations that make this verse a little clearer:

"...for He has appointed a time for every matter, and for every work..." (The New Revised Standard Version).

"For He has set a season for every event and for every deed..." (The Concordant Literal Old Testament).

There is no wasted motion in God's creation, purpose and plan. Everything has an appointed time, and everything includes: "every purpose, every work, every matter, every event, and every deed." Where pray tell does "free will" fit into all this? It doesn't. It clearly DOESN'T. Man has no free will. There is no such thing as free will. It is but the phantom of an "obscured heart" as we learned in Part C from Ecc. 3:11.

Again we ask, since "EVERY work, purpose, matter, deed and event" under heaven must happen at an "APPOINTED TIME," how can there be such a thing as human, uncaused, "free-will?"

Is any man free to do anything other than what God HAS "appointed time" for? No.

Is any man free to do anything that God HAS NOT assigned an "appointed time" for? No.

Is any man free to do or not to do anything that God HAS or HAS NOT assigned an "appointed time" for? No.

Then how can man have a free will?

Man's will is predicated on previous circumstances and causes, all of which originate in God's preordained plan and purpose.

Christendom and her fabled doctrine of "free moral agency" is trapped and completely book-ended between:

[1] "To every thing there is a season [appointed time],and a time to every purpose [matter or event] under the heaven" (Ecc. 3:1).

AND:

[2] "I know that, whatsoever God does...NOTHING can be put to it, nor ANYTHING taken from it: and GOD does it" (Ecc. 3:14).

Someone might see a contradiction in God's teaching. If the two above Scriptures are true, then why does God warn against "adding to or taking away from His word?" Well, like everything else that is beyond the realm of carnal comprehension, all of these things too, have been foreordained and pre-determined to happen only at their "APPOINTED TIME." God has appointed a time for false prophets to add and God has appointed a time for false prophets to take away from His word.

Here is a bit more information this time from Lake of Fire Part VI; http://bible-truths.com/lake6.html

TWO JUDGMENTS BY FIRE

Constructing a building is a process that requires time and activity. Since God likens the building of His spiritual temple to the assembling of a physical building, then this process, likewise, requires time and activity. Time and activity is what we call living our lives. Now then, when does judgment begin at the building of this house of God? Answer:

"For the time IS COME that judgment must begin at the house of God..." (I Peter 4:17).
And so it clearly has already begun with the Apostles and New Testament Church nearly two thousand years ago. And it is still going on in the Church of God today, in every believer's life, as he lives his life.

Therefore, Paul warns:

"But let every man take heed HOW he builds [his building'] thereupon" (I Cor. 3:10).

And so judgment is upon the building of God's house as each individual believer is framed and fitted for the calling that God has for each individual. This judgment began in the days of the Apostles after the resurrection of our Lord. It continued generation after generation down through the age until today when it yet continues. And it will continue still further until the entire harvest of firstfruits is completed. Remember we already learned that if we would judge ourselves now, Paul said we would not be condemned with the world later (I Cor. 11:32).

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe

[hillsbororiver]

Good morning dc,

It looks like we were posting at the same time and thinking on the same lines, good stuff there Brother!

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe

[Kat]

Hi Eirik,

This question really makes you think, and that is good.

It seems to me the question really is, why did God cause this evil experience for mankind?
We know that everything is working out exactly as God wants it to.
So why does God cause this evil experience for all mankind.
The very few chosen are not spared.
At first even the chosen were evil, before reconciled.

Col 1:21  You who were once alienated and hostile in mind, doing evil deeds, v.22 he has now reconciled by the death of his physical body so that he might present you holy, blameless, and without fault before him.

Until we are shown the truth, then sin does not rule us.

Rom 6:14  For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under law, but under grace.

After being chosen, we are not dominated by sin,
tho we can not be sinless while in the flesh, we are not evil.

In order to have this evil eperience, man must do evil.

Gen 8:21 ... "because the imagination of the heart of man is evil from his youth."

Jer 18:12  And they said, There is no hope; but we will walk after our own ways, and we will each one do according to the stubbornness of his evil heart.

God has created mankind in a spiritually weakened state,
they are totally incapable of understanding spiritual laws and principles.
Only the chosen can understand, tho dimly.

1Co 13:12  What we see now is like a dim image in a mirror; then we shall see face-to-face. What I know now is only partial; then it will be complete---as complete as God's knowledge of me.

It is God intention that mankind go against His will, for a great and beneficial purpose.
I think it is so hard for us to comprehend this, because we are living through it,
and suffering along with the rest of mankind.

God has chosen few, and those only after an evil experience.
I believe, that what is gained by this evil experience, is of such great value,
in the end, it will have been worth it, when all is one with God.

1Co 15:28  But when everything has been put under him, then the Son himself will also become subject to the one who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.

So for now, we have to except that God is doing what is best for everyone now,
and later we all will understand why and realize the wisdom of it all.

1Co 2:9  But as it is written, "No eye has seen, no ear has heard, and no mind has imagined the things that God has prepared for those who love him."

Psa 103:11  How great is God's love for all who worship him? Greater than the distance between heaven and earth!

2Co 4:14  We know that God, who raised the Lord Jesus to life, will also raise us up with Jesus and take us, together with you, into his presence.
v.15  All this is for your sake; and as God's grace reaches more and more people, they will offer to the glory of God more prayers of thanksgiving.
v.16  For this reason we never become discouraged. Even though our physical being is gradually decaying, yet our spiritual being is renewed day after day.
v.17  And this small and temporary trouble we suffer will bring us a tremendous and eternal glory, much greater than the trouble.
v.18  For we fix our attention, not on things that are seen, but on things that are unseen. What can be seen lasts only for a time, but what cannot be seen lasts forever.

Well, that's the way I see it.

mercy, peace, and love
Kat

[eggi]

I realize that asking questions could be seen as "borderline", however I didn't feel that this question was not a tolerable question. I agree that we cannot understand all of God's mind, but that doesn't mean that we shouldn't be increasing in knowledge. We find verses like these in the Scriptures:

For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding; That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God; (Col 1:9-10 KJV)

This verse says something about why God designed the "many called/few chosen-scheme":

And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

So, clearly this way of doing things is giving God the preeminence!

I'm sorry if I offended some by this thread. That was not my intention. I'm a rather curious person, and I'm used to thinking in an analytical way, and I realize that this might not be appropriate from time to time.

Now I'll read through the rest of the posts and have a closer look at the verses you provided.
Thanks again!

God bless you and keep you,
Eirik

[hillsbororiver]

Eirik,

I did not see anyone expressing offense or saying this was an intolerable question, where did you get that impression?

Questions and seeking His Wisdom or clarification of points being made is the reason this Forum exists.

Let us all edify and instruct each other with the knowledge that He has generously provided and pray that our egos or our carnal natures do not get in the way.

We are all better served to prayerfully discern answers and opinions not by who wrote them but by how they line up with scripture, it is too easy to fall into the personality pit.

His Peace and Wisdom to you Brother,

Joe

[eggi]

Turns out that this whole thing was a misunderstanding. I was under the impression that the word "borderline" meant something like these lines:

# Relating to a condition characterized by a pattern of instability in mood, interpersonal relations, and self-image, and manifested by self-destructive, impulsive, and inconsistent behavior: the borderline syndrome.

Last night I came home quite tired from a long day of concerts, and as I read the post by dcfreedom, I guess I was sleepy and without attention. I felt that the word "borderline" suggested that I was out of my mind asking that question.

I was sad and a puzzled to read this, but later I understood that this was not what that word was meant to convey. I was reading things into that word, funny how that can happen sometimes. It is me who has to apologize.

[hillsbororiver]

Good morning Eirik,

These things happen, no worries please 

Every time we can get past the "small things" and grow together it pleases Him.

Thank you very much for your reply.

His Peace to you,

Joe