DO YOU WANT TO CONSIDER JOINING THE 24/7?

brothertoall · January 31, 2007, 02:02:51 PM

1 John 4:20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?

Craig refresh my memory here. what question was that?

Craig · January 31, 2007, 02:09:22 PM

Quote from: brothertoall on January 31, 2007, 02:02:51 PM
1 John 4:20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?

Craig refresh my memory here. what question was that?

Quit skirtting the question you know what I asked, and then you post a scripture that was never on the thread until you posted it.

Now show me where anyone said Christ "hated" anyone.

You are changing the subject, but I want that accusation answered.

Craig

Kat · January 31, 2007, 02:13:32 PM

International Standrad Bible Encyclopedia (ISBE) from eSword.

I. Definition: Love

luv (אהב, 'āhēbh, אהבה, 'ahăbhāh, noun; φιλέω, philéō, ἀγαπάω, agapáō, verb; ἀγάπη, agápē, noun):
While the Hebrew and Greek words for "love" have various shades and intensities of meaning, they may be summed up in some such definition as this: Love, whether used of God or man, is an earnest and anxious desire for and an active and beneficent interest in the well-being of the one loved. Different degrees and manifestations of this affection are recognized in the Scriptures according to the circumstances and relations of life, e.g. the expression of love as between husband and wife, parent and child, brethren according to the flesh, and according to grace; between friend and enemy, and, finally, between God and man. It must not be overlooked, however, that the fundamental idea of love as expressed in the definition of it is never absent in any one of these relations of life, even though the manifestation thereof may differ according to the circumstances and relations.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I thought an outside source might be of some help.

mercy, peace, and love
Kat

brothertoall · January 31, 2007, 02:46:04 PM

Craig I am not skirrting the question. I am talking about love and then posted was God HATING Esau. I was then directed to read the Hipocrite paper at the bible truths site and I did not see any reference to hate in that article. That is what I ment.

Take what ever way you wish but I was not accusing anyone of anything.

Now if that answer is not good enough for you well then I am sorry about your luck.

bobby

jennie · January 31, 2007, 03:52:23 PM

I am not like many on the forum who know so much about the scriptures and I don't know how to say things the right way. I am encouraged from reading all the information and all from so many.I learn so much from ya'll. I think we are all just trying to do our best to live as Jesus would want us to. I don't think I will ever be able to love like Jesus did while on this earth. All I can do is try to follow the model of love that Jesus showed to us. Do I fail? You bet! I had to speak privately with my friend last week about something I said that had hurt someone's feelings. That someone was a family member. I have so few family members still living that the ones I have are so precious to me and the knowledge that I had unintentionally caused pain was tearing me up inside. My friend came through for me again and helped me quit beating myself up and that is a testament of the love of a friend!

Bobby, my friend, you are never alone. God knows your kind and loving heart and He knows that all you want to do is practice what the Bible says. You are blessed , my friend, and we are all blessed to know you! Much love, Jennie

ciy · January 31, 2007, 04:05:17 PM

Man, that was a flurry of activity.

It is amazing how that beast in us can make us flare up and start reasoning with our own understanding. We need to realize that it is Christ in us that will bring us to salvation. He works from the inside/out.

We should take heed lest we fall because no one is assured of being chosen unless we are faithful to the end.

We cannot judge someone in another forum until we get close enough to them to see their fruits. It is all of God and not of us. We cannot love someone else better than our families of ourselves, but Christ in us can and does. How can God love the Christ in me more than he loves the Christ in my next door neighbor? It is the same Christ.

If I show favor to my son on friday night and do not show favor to my daughter on friday night, it does not mean I love my daughter less than I love my son. Her time of favor may come on saturday night, but I love her the same as my son. It really is all a matter of the heart. Focus on God and seek Him with all of your heart then do what your heart desires. That appears to me to be at the heart of Ray's teachings.

Hope I am helping this situation and not hurting. I started to stay on the side lines but I had to put my foot in and probably did.

God loves you all and I do too.
CIY

hillsbororiver · January 31, 2007, 04:10:12 PM

Quote from: hillsbororiver on January 31, 2007, 12:23:18 PM
While it is true God is not a respector of persons and their works on their own merit He does love some more than others,

Mal 1:1 The burden of the word of the LORD to Israel by Malachi.

Mal 1:2 I have loved you, saith the LORD. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob's brother?
saith the LORD: yet I loved Jacob,

Mal 1:3 And I hated (loved less) Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.

Rom 9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)

Rom 9:12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.

Rom 9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

Rom 9:14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness93 with God? God forbid.

Rom 9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

This seems to say not all are loved equally in this age.

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe

Bobby,

There are unbelievers, the called and the chosen, who are receiving the grace of His love in this age? Are they not receiving the bounty of His love (through chastisement) now, or in their natural lives whatever century they lived in? The rest of humanity will be brought to Him in the next age, even Esau!

Sometimes I think Universal Salvation should be termed Ultimately Saved, either in this age or the next.

As far as the verses I quoted they are not my words but the words of the Lord through Malachi and Paul.

There are more where they came from.

His Peace and Wisdom to you Brother,

Joe

hillsbororiver · January 31, 2007, 04:11:36 PM

Does anyone want to comment on Romans 9?

hebrewroots98 · January 31, 2007, 04:15:56 PM

THE GREEK DEFINITIONS OF 'LOVE':

1. AGAPE'-(UNCONDITIONAL LOVE) (AS IN: YESHUA HAS LOVED EVERY HUMAN BEING THAT GOD EVER CREATED, ENOUGH TO DIE FOR EACH ONE OF THEM, WITH NO STRINGS ATTATCHED)

2-PHILEO-(FRIENDSHIP LOVE)- (THE LOVE THAT FRIENDS SHARE)

3-STORGE'-(FAMILY/RELATIVES TYPE OF LOVE)- (MY LOVE FOR MY IMMEDIATE AND EXTENDED FAMILY RELATIVES)

4-EROS- (SEXUAL LOVE)- (HUSBAND AND WIFE'S PHYSICAL RELATIONSHIP/SEXUAL)

I PRAY THAT THIS SHEDS SOME LIGHT TO THIS THREAD.

Craig · January 31, 2007, 04:17:03 PM

Thanks for posting that 'Susan, I tried but couldn't find it.

Craig

hebrewroots98 · January 31, 2007, 04:27:52 PM

CRAIG, YOUR'E WLECOME; AS THIS WAS FROM MEMORY; I ALWAYS FORGET TO USE E-SWORD.LOL

Craig · January 31, 2007, 04:30:26 PM

Are we sure we can trust your memory, because you sure can't trust mine.

Craig

rocky · January 31, 2007, 04:39:33 PM

Quote from: hillsbororiver on January 31, 2007, 04:11:36 PM
Does anyone want to comment on Romans 9?

Relative versus absolute. God is love, that's his essence. He can't hate, that's an absolute. Love can't hate.

In the relative, he hates. He hates the ungodliness of men. That's how he has determined it to happen. Mercy for some now, Mercy later for all. Love and grace are his essence. I Corinth 13 is the absolute. Romans 9 is how he works with man and how we can understand.

Through destruction of the ungodliness, the spirit (what God loves) is saved.

Dennis Vogel · January 31, 2007, 05:04:17 PM

QuoteHow can God love the Christ in me more than he loves the Christ in my next door neighbor? It is the same Christ.

This just did not sound right to me so I contacted Ray and got some help as I cannot always express myself.

QuoteIt is amazing how that beast in us can make us flare up and start reasoning with our own understanding. We need to realize that it is Christ in us that will bring us to salvation. He works from the inside/out.

We should take heed lest we fall because no one is assured of being chosen unless we are faithful to the end.

We cannot judge someone in another forum until we get close enough to them to see their fruits.

There is a giant difference in judging a person and judging what a person may say or do. Ray judges what other people say and do all day long. It is part of the "exposing those who contradict." We expose those who contradict BECAUSE of their contradictions. We do not judge their personality or character or lack thereof.

QuoteIt is all of God and not of us. We cannot love someone else better than our families of ourselves, but Christ in us can and does.

Certainly "all is of God," but Christ in us does not cause us to love terrorists "better" than Christ in us causes us to loves our own famility. That's absurd. Even Jesus showed greater affection toward John than any of the other Apostles. We are not commanded to love our enemies (Matt. 5:44) with the same love that we are commanded to love our Lord (I Cor. 16:22).

QuoteHow can God love the Christ in me more than he loves the Christ in my next door neighbor? It is the same Christ.

That is a nonsensical rhetorical question. Where do we hear of such phrases as "God loves the Christ in us?" Does that mean God ONLY loves the Christ in us, but not us? Does that mean that we are EQUAL in righteousness and character and love to the "Christ in us?" The Corinthian Church came behind in no spiritual gift, and yet Paul says they were "yet carnal," and the "carnal mind is emnity against God" (Rom. 8:7).

Dennis (with a lot of help from Ray)

Dennis Vogel · January 31, 2007, 05:06:22 PM

Quote from: hebrewroots98 on January 31, 2007, 04:15:56 PM
THE GREEK DEFINITIONS OF 'LOVE':

1. AGAPE'-(UNCONDITIONAL LOVE) (AS IN: YESHUA HAS LOVED EVERY HUMAN BEING THAT GOD EVER CREATED, ENOUGH TO DIE FOR EACH ONE OF THEM, WITH NO STRINGS ATTATCHED)

2-PHILEO-(FRIENDSHIP LOVE)- (THE LOVE THAT FRIENDS SHARE)

3-STORGE'-(FAMILY/RELATIVES TYPE OF LOVE)- (MY LOVE FOR MY IMMEDIATE AND EXTENDED FAMILY RELATIVES)

4-EROS- (SEXUAL LOVE)- (HUSBAND AND WIFE'S PHYSICAL RELATIONSHIP/SEXUAL)

I PRAY THAT THIS SHEDS SOME LIGHT TO THIS THREAD.

I'm pretty sure #1 and #2 should swap definitions. But I could be wrong.

Dennis

rocky · January 31, 2007, 05:36:17 PM

Quote from: Dennis Vogel on January 31, 2007, 05:06:22 PM
Quote from: hebrewroots98 on January 31, 2007, 04:15:56 PM
THE GREEK DEFINITIONS OF 'LOVE':

1. AGAPE'-(UNCONDITIONAL LOVE) (AS IN: YESHUA HAS LOVED EVERY HUMAN BEING THAT GOD EVER CREATED, ENOUGH TO DIE FOR EACH ONE OF THEM, WITH NO STRINGS ATTATCHED)

2-PHILEO-(FRIENDSHIP LOVE)- (THE LOVE THAT FRIENDS SHARE)

3-STORGE'-(FAMILY/RELATIVES TYPE OF LOVE)- (MY LOVE FOR MY IMMEDIATE AND EXTENDED FAMILY RELATIVES)

4-EROS- (SEXUAL LOVE)- (HUSBAND AND WIFE'S PHYSICAL RELATIONSHIP/SEXUAL)

I PRAY THAT THIS SHEDS SOME LIGHT TO THIS THREAD.

I'm pretty sure #1 and #2 should swap definitions. But I could be wrong.

Dennis

the definitions posted are correct for number 1 and 2.

hebrewroots98 · January 31, 2007, 05:41:25 PM

Dennis, the way I wrote it are the true and accurate defintions of the word 'love' in the Greek..

Dennis Vogel · January 31, 2007, 05:44:33 PM

I asked Ray and he said agape was the lessor but most do not know this.

Agape is a more formal type of respect/love.

Dennis

hebrewroots98 · January 31, 2007, 06:08:57 PM

Agape has always meant the highest or 'unconditional' type of love (example: to where someone would lay down his life for another; wether stranger of a friend of Jesus.) I have NEVER heard in all of my years that there was any higher love than the UNCONDITIONAL love. Yes, AGAPE is a respectful love. Friendship is a wonderful thing, but, I would rather have the unconditional love that Jesus offers to me in order to have eternal life, than for HIM to just be my friend while in this flesh and HE do nothing to save me in the end. I understand that this is not used as often as the others, but, to me when it is used it is so much more meaningful to me.

Interesting; where did Ray get his info from? I had just not heard that take on 'Agape'' before.

Dennis Vogel · January 31, 2007, 06:19:48 PM

Ray says someday he will write on this subject.

bible-truths.com/forums

News: