love?

[hebrewroots98]

...and then there is the couple that is in cahoots together to try and get as much freebies off of other people's sympathies as they can possibly get (without having to work for it or to repay it;) they want it all donated in the name of love and brotherly sacrifice; and yet, they never have enough! (She is a very educated leader in the community and he cannot hold a job, both are well known too.  They do fundraisers for all kinds of reasons (to give to the poor, housefire victims, community food bank, they even sell things that they made up on their computer and have fundraisers to sell their item, while telling everyone that the proceeds go to the so and so agency...etc...), but we know for a fact that they are keeping things from these fundraisers for themselves, that were given for others who are less fortunate to have.  I wouldn't have known this, but, I assisted in some of these fundraisers along wth this couple and heard their snide remarks; and once I saw their oldest child wearing a distinct article of clothing that I had donated to the fire victim family...obvioulsy it never arrived to the fire victims.  She lied as to why he had the clothing on.    

Then,  I was at their home and it was the most filthy and stinking place (cat feces all over the bedroom floor AND ON the nearly ceiling high (not exagerating) piles of clothing in that same parents bedroom.)  They have 4 computers and no running water b/c not enough money to replace the old pipes!!!  Yet four kids and the parents that smell unbearable always, but are too active in community events (head knowledge) to take care of their most basic of needs.  There is no excuse here!  He stays at home and plays Mr.Mom while she is pregnant with their # 4 child and she can't even take care of the 1 yr old whom has never walked yet and who stays seated in a baby walker with a tshirt and no socks on still!.  (He cuaght RSV and was hospitalised b/c they refused to cover the baby up and dress him in socks during the winter as well as much clothing (diaper and a summertime onesie only) for the little guy!  Neglected big time!  But, their excuse...well he will just kick off the socks and clothing b/c he is too hot natured.  Plus, there are churches whom bring boxes of xmas presents and whole cases of food for them to have a holiday with. Others give them good will items to help them out...Or she will recruit items for a poor family and she will keep the stuff herself and then have a big gargae sale and then keep the money for herself.   They will sell donated items b/c she doesn't have gas money or food money to get by. 

I say all of this to get you to see that there are extremes in people whom are needy.  (There is no shame in being poor, but there is shame in being lazy and unclean.)   So just be careful and be a fruit inspector before you give just b/c there is a need.  Some peole are just plain old LAZY AND DON'T CARE ABOUT ANYONE BUT THEMSELVES; AND THEY DON;T CARE WHAT OTHERS THINK OF THEM INTHE LEAST. 

I know that God has to get their attention before they will come to their senses!

[rrammfcitktturjsp]

Susan,

  That is so sad that post that you posted.  Today my precious one did something cute.  I will post it in another thread.

  Thanks for sharing.

  Sincerely,





  Anne C. McGuire

[jennie]

As most of ya'll know we have what we call a "free market" at church for back to school and for the holidays. There is a lady who goes around to yard sales and stuff to buy things to re-sale. she has come to the free market we do. The people in our church either buy up stuff or give money to some ladies in our gathering who love to shop(not me, I hate it!) to buy things for us to have on hand. Some of us, like me, make things for the free market as well. It is kind of hard to swallow that this yard sale lady who has come to the free market gets things. That will be something she will have to answer for. One of the ladies in our church had a hissy fit over it though. Michael talked to her about it and asked the question of her about if she thought we as a group were doing this free market was pleasing to God. she said yes and he told her that if anyone took advantage that God would work it all out and that all we are called upon to do is what we believe God wants us to . As long as we do that we are okay and the other will be a matter between anyone taking advantage and God.
I agree with many who have spoken up.... if you KNOW someone is going to buy drugs or what have you, harmful stuff, we shouldn't deal in cash. Jennie

[mrsnacks]

Sorry ya'll, I have a somewhat different point of view. I think if someone asks me for something I give it. Jesus said "if they ask for your cloak give them your shirt too" or something like that. Even so, if I do as God leads me too and someone is taking advantage of me that is betweeen them and God. I've done what God wanted me to do. I have been taken advantage of but I don't really think about it that much.Jennie

-------------------------------------
But we can't take a verse in isolation like that. All scripture is connected to each other like a spiders web.
God commands us to use wisdom. If I came up to you and asked you for your savings or your car would you give it to me? If you isolate the verses you quoted you would have to. If we are taken advantage of many times it is our own fault. Just my 2 cents.

[PKnowler]

You sound wise mrsnacks! Is it Mr Snacks or Mrs Nacks? LOL  It's good to have you here! Welcome! 

[mrsnacks]

It's Mr. Snacks.

[Redbird]

Paula,

GREAT MINDS DO THINK ALIKE!  And I thank God for this fellowship everyday.

Peace, Lisa

[hillsbororiver]

I believe this all comes back to praying for the gift of discernment, like Solomon did, pleasing the Lord immensely.

Giving money to someone you know wants to spend it on intoxicants is not real love, it is taking the path of least resistance, if that same person is hungry we should feed them or if they were cold we should give them clothes but not money.

It would not be love to allow our young child to play in a busy street just because they want to, or give them a book of matches so they had something to play with.

Giving good council or advice (even if they are not receptive) or quietly listening to them and then giving a word of encouragement may not produce immediate results but just may be a catalyst down the road when they remember your words, kindness & unselfishness.

On the other side of the coin I have often seen that one of the quickest ways to lose a family member's companionship or someone's friendship is to loan them or give them money, often it only breeds resentment from the recipient toward the giver.

It seems that more attention should be given to the reason someone is not able to provide for themself not for the quick fix of  temporary relief from a chronic behavior (if that be the case).

1Ki 3:9  Give therefore thy servant an understanding heart to judge thy people, that I may discern between good and bad: for who is able to judge this thy so great a people?

1Ki 3:10  And the speech pleased the Lord, that Solomon had asked this thing.

1Ki 3:11  And God said unto him, Because thou hast asked this thing, and hast not asked for thyself long life; neither hast asked riches for thyself, nor hast asked the life of thine enemies; but hast asked for thyself understanding to discern judgment;

His Peace to you,

Joe

[Deborah-Leigh]

Hello Susan

You wrote something that struck me the second time I read your post. Wealthy in material riches also describes what you wrote about poor in material riches persons!....don't you think? You wrote :  So just be careful and be a fruit inspector before you give just b/c there is a need.  Some peole are just plain old LAZY AND DON'T CARE ABOUT ANYONE BUT THEMSELVES; AND THEY DON;T CARE WHAT OTHERS THINK OF THEM INTHE LEAST.

Our giving is not only in material ways but it is in attention giving. Listening and giveing considertion perhaps where we shouldn't. Like Jesus said to Peter....get thee behind me Satan......because Peter was minding the things of man Jesus rebuked him and rightly so I believe!

At second glance your words made me see that they are equally applicable. Thank you for sharing your wise thoughts.

Peace to you

Arcturus

[jennie]

I have to respond to this thread. If it gets me thrown out .. so be it. It is kind of funny that someone asked earlier if we would give a vehicle if someone asked for it or needed it. We have had a couple of situations where we had no finances to help someone else out and decided that we would give one of our cars up and just share one. As it turned out, God stepped in and made another way. I say this not to be boastful but just to answer the question,

Joe, I think you wrote something about finding out what put someone in a needful place. We try very hard to do that and I can't tell you how many people Michael has helped find work so that they won't be dependent on charity. That is the best we know how to do. Whether anyone agrees or not, we believe we are following what God has set out for us to do. Jennie

[hillsbororiver]

Joe, I think you wrote something about finding out what put someone in a needful place. We try very hard to do that and I can't tell you how many people Michael has helped find work so that they won't be dependent on charity. That is the best we know how to do. Whether anyone agrees or not, we believe we are following what God has set out for us to do. Jennie

Hi Jennie,

How or why would anyone not agree that helping to make a person "self sufficient" is a very godly thing to do? People usually find themselves in a needful place usually through a series of actions not because of one calamity or disaster, of course (as you well know from personal experience) disasters do happen but if we have a strong foundation it won't all be blown away and it is much easier to rebuild.

The best way to help a brother of sister is to see how they got where they are and help them get to higher ground.

His Peace to you Sister,

Joe

[gmik]

One day, years ago, my husband brought home a hitch hiker he picked up.  We had 3 children under 5 and I was a stay at home mom.  He stayed w/ us several days.  We found him a car, contacted a church near the town he was from, got leads for a job, got him a haircut...you know we took care of him.

Thats not the whole story.

I WAS MAD AS A SKUNK!!!!!!  I couldn't sleep.  I knew he was going to kill us in our beds.  How could my husband be such a jerk.  He goes to work and leaves me & the kids all day long alone!!!!  I secretly called a single guy at church to see if he would take him.  Yes he would.  I was so excited, but NOOOOOO, hubby wouldn't hear of it.  I was going to leave him no divorce him.  Then I did the ultimate....I CALLED HIS MOMMY!!!!!

My mother in law nearly crawled thru the phone she was so upset and she chewed him out so he finally took the guy to tht single guys till we got him on his way.

Then I went thru the guilt of "gee, what a terrible christian I am" et etc.  It took years to realize that I had some valid points.  My husband thought he heard the Lord to pick him up.  The guy turned out to be harmless.  We did help him out and a lot of people got to bless him too. But wisdom ?  3 small children, a wildly gorgeous wife ( ), 5 acres out in the country, no you don't bring home a hitch hiker!!!!!  Thank God for His Grace!

All situations are different.  Maturity helps when you "think" you hear from the Lord.  Common sense  helps too.  We have given money, loaned money, tithed money, thrown good money after bad and just chalked it all up to --we are trying to walk in love and help a brother out.

All part of the journey.

[hebrewroots98]

Thank you Arcturus!  yes, it does take wisdom and deiscernment before you act on helping anyone. 

[Deborah-Leigh]

There is nothing wrong in giving someone a hand up not a hand out or a fishing rod and not the fish!

Peace to you

Arcturus

[PKnowler]

Oh Gena,

   That would be a scary situation to pick up a hitch hiker and have him stay with you when you had children. I liked the way you handled it though! You are a pretty funny story teller. Please share more of your stories with us- in the future. I enjoyed that!

Come to think of it we have taken a family into our home, that we didn't know, who were just passing through town and came to our church looking for a place to stay. They stayed with us for about a week when the elders of the church came to us and encouraged us to kick them out. I finally came up with an excuse that they had to leave when it looked like they were settling in. My husband was mad at the elders for sticking their noses into our business but I was a nervous wreck because it seemed like they were taking advantage of our hospitality and not doing anything to help out or keep the place clean. (There were things my husband needed help with but the man refused to help and the lady wouldn't even wash a dish.)

I think we need to use discernment when helping someone out because sometimes our help isn't help it's enabling.

[skydreamers]

This has always been a tough one to figure out for me.  I think everybody here has some valid points, regardless of their stance. 

It is hard in this world when sadly most of the time most people WILL take advantage of a giving person.  I feel like there have been times when I've not been appreciative when someone has helped me, or that I even used the blessing wisely.  Most of the time, not even meaning to, but truth be told I know I am not innocent in having taken advantage of some kind hearts.  So I guess, I can say I've been on both ends.

Before we had children my husband and I took in a childhood friend of my brother's, who I also loved dearly.  He was a heroine addict and we did everything to try and help him but he continued to use, steal from us etc etc.  Oh, he would cry and break down and swear he was so sorry, and would never do it again, and that really made it hard for me to put him out on the streets.  I was so scared something awful would happen to him.  My husband thought I was a sucker but I would get so upset that he would let him stay. 

So he eventually ended up in jail and when he got out he came back to live with us and the same horrible cycle started all over again.  Eventually my husband had enough and told him he needed to go. 

Thankfully, from what I understand he finally got his act together several years later and is living a clean life.  Did my husband and I make any difference in his life?  I have no idea, but I would do it again, even knowing what a struggle it was. 

But to this day, I still pine after a favorite lamp of mine which my parents bought me, that he stole and pawned.  How crazy is that?  Talk about not being able to let go of the past.  After all the emotional ups and downs I still think about that stupid lamp when I think of him.  It's laughable!  It's like the lamp symbolizes something I thought was MINE and DEAR to me and somebody STOLE it...it was out of my control.  But God has been teaching me that NOTHING is really mine, but belongs to Him who gave it.  And God controls it all, so I'm thankful for the blessings and am learning not to worry about the past or the future and who's doing what to whom. 

As for how to really love our neighbour as we love ourselves.....most days I haven't a clue as to what that actually means!  Got to start studying Ray's material on this subject!

God Bless,
Diana 

[Redbird]

I like what Arcturus said, one of my favorite sayings is;

Give a kid a fish, and he has a meal~
Teach a kid to fish, and he eats for a lifetime.

Peace, Lisa

[Bev]

but deep inside, i hate her for being lazy. is this love?

I believe I'm learning how not to try to figure out the dynamics behind other folks saga's and living arrangements or whatever else when it comes to loving like Christ or rather allowing Christ through Holy Spirit to love through me. Sometimes loving may be not giving, if you're being led by the  Holy Spirit. What does the verse say in Matthew 7:6? Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

Be led by the Holy Spirit (St John 16:13), and not religion, political correctness, expectation of others. Proverbs 20:27 - The spirit (heart) of man (I think this means mankind or humankind) is the candle of the LORD, searching all the inward parts of the belly. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I think this means Holy Spirit uses your spirit as a candle to guide, lead, and direct you. I don't want to go off too much, but read THE BIBLE and some of Rays teachings.

We need guidance of Holy Spirit cause everything is spiritual (Ephesians 6:12, Hebrews 11:3).

Now don't get me in trouble here. I'm bout to get carried away.

In Christ,


Bev   

[Bev]

 I like what somebody said:

Give a kid a fish, and he has a meal~
Teach a kid to fish, and he eats for a lifetime.

And who better to learn from than the master fishermen (Luke 5:4-8)?

[Bev]

As far as discretion (exercising good judgment), we need guidance of Holy Spirit.

We need guidance of Holy Spirit cause everything is spiritual (Ephesians 6:12, Hebrews 11:3).

Who said in John 8:15 - Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man? I know HE went on to say John 8:16 - And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me.