Frank Viola

[sonofone]

I need some feedback if anyone can help.Has anyone here read Frank Violas books? If so please give feedback on what if anything you have picked up from his writings. Thanks

[dawnnnny]

I have a few of his books but haven't read all of them.  I know he calls for a return to the New Testament Church, i.e., not the pulpit to pew church we have now.  When people met in homes, etc., and everyone participated.  I enjoyed what I did read and will return to it at some point.  I buy a lot of books and have so many that I haven't opened yet.  And, thanks to the BT website, it will be a while longer before I do  .  I think he does have a website where you can get more information. 

[psalmsinger]

When coming out of organized religion a few years back, I found Frank's materials while trying to find a house church. I've got most of the
books and found quite a bit of good information about the history of the church and purpose of the church. It was a refreshing read after where I'd been:)  After a short while, I found that you could make a religion out of "house-church" as well as "instituational church".   As the Lord leads, I will follow.  So I am here:)

Rest in the Lord,
Barbara

[hillsbororiver]

He certainly has alot of merchandise for sale, you can buy his thoughts on;

The fall of man.

The Trinity

Hell

Of course there will be some attractive and compelling words from this author but..........

Peace,

Joe

[dawnnnny]

I think everybody has a "but"

[Deborah-Leigh]

The book titled "God's ultimate passion" has a chapter titled Fallen yet cherished in the first part of the book.

i see that Myles Munroe also is a person that endorses Viola. I am familiar with Munroes works and theology.

It is revealed and taught here in BT that there is no such thing as the FALL of Adam or Eve.   God knew and planned everything.  God is Sovereign. God did not make a mistake. God is perfect and His design is in the process of making us into the image of His Son. There were no surprises for God that Eve took the forbidden fruit. She was exactly in the PLAN of God and her life is on record for our instruction and admonition not to say she FELL from perfection or the image of God into carnality which is taught endorsed and believed in Babyon. Eve was carnal.  First the natural then the spiritual right?

All is exactly as God has purposed and planned. Non can go against God's purpose and we all go against God's Will. This is the Plan. Eventually as in first the natural then the spiritual we too will go from first being against God's Will to arrive in Gods perfect Will all via Gods Sovereign Plan.

A teacher, author or pastor who does not know that God IS Sovereign is for me a teacher author or pastor of falsity, errors and deception.

Personally I have no incling to run after what is falsely called knowledge and spiritual illumination. Right here for free are Truths that lead for me, straight to the heart and mind of God. For free....Given freely by HIS Spirit of Truth and made freely available to all those who would believe and endure.

Just my thoughts...

Peace to you

Arcturus

[indianabob]

YES MA'AM, Arcturus,

Once you have been enlightened, the truth seems so obvious and clear.

I do feel a little sorry for those who are still struggling on their own understanding,  but I am not tempted to explore their theology other than to help them discard it.  However, I haven't yet developed the confidence in my ability to give an answer for the faith that I've been given.  Still a work in progress.

Thanks for your thoughts,

indianabob

[dawnnnny]

Hi everyone.  Well I'm going to just pipe in with my opinion.
I am very thankful for the truths revealed in the BT website from the Word of God
I am also thankful to Ray for his teaching.
With that said, no man is an island, and I did not just "pop" into BT without a lot of teaching from others.
God started revealing to me about His sovereignty as I read a book by R. C. Sproul (Chosen By God), and yet Sproul is a trinitarian and I'm sure he probably believes in hell.  Yet the scriptures he used spoke so strongly about the sovereignty of God and the folly of human free will.  I am thankful to him for the purpose in my life that he played.
I've read other writings where I walked away with some good and discarded (over time) what thankfully God showed me was error.
So I do believe that teachers (even Ray) have both truth and error.  No one has it 100% right.
Ultimately its up to us, through study and prayer, to discern which is which.  That is all part of this journey.
So I may read some others work and do as I always do, ask for Godly wisdom.
I think we all will be quite surprised when we enter His Kingdom of how much we didn't understand that we thought we did. 

[sonofone]

Dawn you hit it on the head for me. I love Ray,and all you guys here,but no one has it all right.I have read some of Violas works here recently and they are really speaking to me. I don't know him personally,or all that he believes or who endorses him.What I have read from him so far coincides with what I have learned here and that is to come out of the organized church and learn Jesus afresh.Who can argue against that. By the way it is my understanding that Ray does not hold himself out as the leader,or teacher of us,or anyone.Why does there seem to be such a devotion to what he has to say,when it seems that he is not looking for this or asking this of anyone?

[Deborah-Leigh]

Ray does not hold himself out as the leader,or teacher of us,or anyone.Why does there seem to be such a devotion to what he has to say,when it seems that he is not looking for this or asking this of anyone? Quote sonofone.

Ray does say that he is a teacher he just doesn't make an idol of the fact and he also holds himself out as a sinner too, just like all of us.

Indianabob

I too experience my mouth being shut and not opening in the occasion that I am with deceived and blinded folks but I believe it is the Lord keeping me still because He is after all, in controll of all and every one. On other occasions I am given to speak and with great joy, the words that flow I can really say, are guided and inspired by Him. Those times are wonderful but are select not by my will or desire but by His. If He wants you to speak, you will!

We are all a work in progress!

Peace to you

Arcturus

[hillsbororiver]

The primary purpose of the Forum is to discuss the articles on Bible Truths, there is such a wealth of scripturally verified Truths contained within these articles that we should be able to have edifying discussions by using the articles as an outline.

We have been down this road so many times and it usually does not end well, the old line of "no man has all the truth" has been repeated here countless times, we know that, Ray knows that, but why do we want to appear to promote those whom we know are in error about a multitude of things and who use so little scripture in formulating there opinions/doctrines?

If someone wants to post a specific idea with scriptural witnesses that is one thing but to start the wholesale advocation of any and all of the "Christian" authors out there defeats the whole purpose of this Forum.

Peace,

Joe

[Craig]

We have been down this road so many times and it usually does not end well, the old line of "no man has all the truth" has been repeated here countless times, we know that, Ray knows that, but why do we want to appear to promote those whom we know are in error about a multitude of things and who use so little scripture in formulating there opinions/doctrines?

If someone wants to post a specific idea with scriptural witnesses that is one thing but to start the wholesale advocation of any and all of the "Christian" authors out there defeats the whole purpose of this Forum.

Amen Joe!

When I see the statement of "no man has all the truth" I cringe.  Yes Ray is the first to admit this, but if what Ray is writing is not the truth then please email him with scriptural witness, so he can make the necessary changes.  Ray will honestly evaluate his critics thoughts if they have a scriptural leg to stand on, it is the ones that only spout doctrine and feelings/opinions that won't get very far.

And to the thought that every author has a little truth, I'll go back to my brownie example.  I'll make you a batch of the worlds best brownies, and mix in just a dab of dog crap, now will you eat them?

Craig


PS  This post is not directed to any individual on the forum, lately I think things have gone quite well and alot of good discussion has come forth.  I posted, because like Joe said, this is a well traveled road that I would like to see closed.  Thank you all.

[sonofone]

I just want to add to the conversation that I am not interested in promoting any mans doctrine,or trying to introduce any particular christian author. I had a simple question based on having recently read some stuff from mr.Viola.This is no way refutes,or contradicts teachings of Ray that many here hold sacred.I would also add that no one here has ever given me any indication that they are displeased with my participation in this forum,yet for the sake of clarity I will ask this question. Is there room for me here to do as I have been doing,in regards to my post? Is there room for a person like me who while I don't disagree with what I have read from Rays teaching,because I have not read them all,but may have some questions about them or not have come to a place of fully accepting them? I have emailed Ray twice in the past two months and have not received a response as of yet.I realize that Ray does not promise to respond to every email which is one of the reasons I came to this forum to post my questions here in hopes of immediate feedback. If this is an improper use of the forum,I would me more than happy to stop.If you find that the nature of my post,are not welcome,or in some way going contrary to the flow of this forum,which I am not claiming that any of you have said,I will be more than happy to refrain from using this forum in this way. I am about peace,and order.I consider you all here to be a part of my spiritual family,whether the feeling or belief is mutual or not.So in love I will do whatever you need me too. Thanks

[LittleBear]

Hi Sonofone,

Of course! You are absolutely welcome here. Why would you think otherwise? Different people have different opinions, as you know already. Not everyone is going to agree with everyone. You have to be sure in your own mind what you believe, and it's no good pretending.

Ursula

[Dennis Vogel]

I need some feedback if anyone can help.Has anyone here read Frank Violas books? If so please give feedback on what if anything you have picked up from his writings. Thanks

I will ask this question. Is there room for me here to do as I have been doing,in regards to my post?

No, there is no room. Your question is too broad. If you have a specific/narrow question about what's taught on BT, then you will not be interfered with. If I 'd caught your post before too many others had responded, I would have deleted it and PMed you with an explanation.

So, please ask your questions. That's one of the reasons the forum exists. Just keep your questions focused please.

Dennis

[sonofone]

So Dennis is the problem with my post is that is was to overbroad or that it was off focus from what bt teaches? I am at this point assuming both.I really need to know because as I said although no one has said so I feel a little out of sync,almost out of place here thanks.

[Dennis Vogel]

So Dennis is the problem with my post is that is was to overbroad or that it was off focus from what bt teaches? I am at this point assuming both.I really need to know because as I said although no one has said so I feel a little out of sync,almost out of place here thanks.

Yes, the question was too general. If you had asked a specific question and simply mentioned Frank Viola then I would not have a problem with it.

But asking the members to simply check out Frank Viola's site is not allowed. We have our reasons, and it's not because we may be proved wrong on some subject. But if we let it go on then things sometimes turn into a free-for-all (we've been there and it's not going to happen again).

And, there are members here who donate and we're not here to promote other sites at their expense.

There are many other forums that have no rules, but we've learned things stay civil here if we enforce certain rules. I don't want new people to come to a forum that's in chaos.

Dennis

[sonofone]

Thanks Dennis point well taken.I will hold myself in subjection.Thanks again

[indianabob]

Friend Sonofone,

If I may respond to your original question about the content of this forum.

I have been searching the way you seem to be for ten or more years.  I have examined many authors and have ended up more confused than enlightened.  Yes, I did get some truth, but not enough to satisfy. It seems that everyone retains a little error and will not give it up.

I attended the last conference in Nashville and was favorably impressed with the humility and friendliness of everyone there.  The defining attribute of the members and first time visitors at the conference was an obvious attitude of 'like mindedness'.  I spoke with thirty different people and I really dug into their personal lives and personal opinions about God, the Bible and their sense of what God is teaching His called out people.  In spite of the fact that most had never met before, it was as if we had been life long friends.  It was a beautiful, refreshing thing to behold.

My point in writing this is that there is evident among the members a definite sense of being taught by the spirit of God as opposed to having to learn to translate what another person is saying.  Whether Ray is speaking on his topic of the day or whether a new friend is relating what they have been learning at home before the conference, what you notice most is that almost everyone listening is nodding their head in agreement.  What you hear after the lesson is given is "I've been trying to put that thought into words myself and when I hear it stated by someone else it is so clear, so obvious".

There is just no other way that I can explain what is happening.  We are all listening to the same voice or spirit.  Sure, Ray and Dennis and Joe and Kat and Arcturus are all individuals with their own personalities, but they are being fed by the same Holy spirit and after you listen face to face for only a few hours it becomes obvious that we all have the same teacher.

I can't recommend any special course of action for you at this point in your growth in grace and knowledge, but I do know that when your mind or our mind is on the same frequency as God's spirit, things just begin to fall into place as if it was natural, as if you had known and understood all of your adult life.

I pray that you will be able to have this experience, maybe at the next conference, and I pray that you will hold onto this opportunity on the forum and continue to share your thoughts and questions with us.  Just keep in mind please, that it is Jesus our Lord who is doing the teaching here, we all are just relaying what the Holy spirit has given us.

Please critique my remarks above, I do want to understand how you feel.

indianabob

[Dennis Vogel]

If I may add another point.

In most other bible forums just about everyone is on the same page that's been around for the last several hundred years.

But here at BT, we are not even on the same planet let alone the same page as traditional Christianity.

If we allow links to other teachers it soon escalates into many other confusing threads. Left unchecked it will cause some to get angry and cause other divisions. After a while this forum would be hijacked by those who disagree with us. And then new people who come here to learn what BT teaches will get confused at best.

We don't expect anyone to check their brains at the door. It's okay to ask one narrow question at a time (but not many single questions all at once), even if it is contrary to what we teach.

As I said before, when it seems to us that someone is promoting another site either intentionally or unintentionally, that's when we have to act. I hope everyone understands.

Dennis