Church today...

[lilitalienboi16]

I went to church with my girlfriend and her family. It was an interesting experience. What shocked me the most is that when i asked for a bible, because i wanted to read the bible because i havn't for a very long time now. They told me they didn't have any... i was absolutely shocked. A church without bibles for its members... Well im not a member, but i was certainly attending for the christmas ceremony [because it ment alot to my gf's family.]

So i bring this up, because i was wondering, doesn't anyone else find this a bit shocking? I mean.. i knew people didn't know the Truth, but now i'm starting to see why. The church's wont even keep bibles in the pews during mass or anything. Just hymnal books, no wonder its so easy to be indoctrinated.

Infact my girlfriends brother stated with frustration after i expressed my shock that; "They just read the story to us." He said "i don't know how they do it at your church but thats how they do it here." I told Him i didn't go to "church" and asked "wouldn't you like to read it for yourself?" To which he replied much the same as his first.

Boy! To me this his like a school without books! A science class without the instruments! Does anyone else think as i do about this?

Curiouse on your thoughts.

God bless,

Alex

[Marlene]

Alex, The last two churches I went to people carried there Bibles. Some did and some didn't. But, the preacher would say open your Bibles to scriptures he was preaching. I think most in churches think the Pastors know what they are talking about. I have been to the Catholic Churches and I never understood when they talked Latin how most of them who did not know Latin even knew what they were talking about. Course that has been many years ago for me since I am getting up there in years.

I guess if you blindly trust you don't need a Bible. Course, I have never been one to trust too much. I would call not reading your Bible lazy among other things. It is kind of like listening to a friend just quiz you on what he thought a test might be about. I myself always wanted to read so I would know and pass the test. I would not want to put my test scores onto another persons knowledge. Yes, I think it is crazy if they don't have Bibles in the place. But, even more crazy to take there word for it and not test the spirits yourself.

In His Love,
Marlene

[Martinez]

Hi A;ex,

Why are you shocked?

Those who call themselves by his name have no use for His word other than to use it to wrap around their beastly doctrines to make idols out of them!

[musicman]

I didn't go today, I didn't go yesterday and chances are, I aint gonna go tommorrow.






Unless they give me money.

[gmik]

Of course it is shocking--to us who know the truth.  "They" think nothing of it.  I used to bring my Bible to church so I could read and NOT listen to the teaching. Martin Luther first brought the idea of "solo scriptura" to the people. The Word only.  Catholics had traditions, other books, and oh yea, the bible too.  I think it is very nice of you to attend w/ your girlfriend and her family. Now you can really see what is going on in Babylon.

Have a great new year Alex!!

[David]

Here in Britain most Churches only keep prayer and service books, the reason is that those books are of no value other than for the services. Churches in the past that did keep Bibles ended up having them all stolen, and so they no longer keep them but encourage worshippers to bring them along.
My local cathedral has a shop that sells numerous English versions for none profit.

[aqrinc]

Sorry to be the grinch but the reason we are here is because we have been pulled from there.
Hope to get your attention; why do we keep going back to where we have been dragged from.

Revelation of John 14:8:
And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she
made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.

Revelation of John 18:2:
And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become
the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird. 

Revelation of John 18:4:
And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that you be not partakers
of her sins, and that you receive not of her plagues.

george.

[Fester]

Sorry to be the grinch but the reason we are here is because we have been pulled from there.
Hope to get your attention; why do we keep going back to where we have been dragged from.

Revelation of John 14:8:
And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she
made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.

Revelation of John 18:2:
And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become
the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird. 

Revelation of John 18:4:
And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that you be not partakers
of her sins, and that you receive not of her plagues.

george.

Well George, I see it a little differently.  My wife and children love to go to church (Baptist) and are all caught up in it.  I go with them as we are family, and as such, we try and do things together.  I print off a few of Ray's papers and read them during the service.  It is great reading time!  So although I am physically in church I do not partake of her.  I speak with my family now and then about the things that I have learned but I do not force it on them.  I hope those little seeds will grow within them.  Coming to the truth was a process for me and I realize that it will be for them as well.  So spiritually I am out of her and hope to rescue my family from her too.  Hopefully, the day will come where we will just stay home and study as a family.  So we cannot just think of ourselves all the time but our loved ones as well.  So let's not be too harsh on the church goers as they may also have reasons valid to them to still attend.  Plus we don't know where they are in their spiritual development/learning.  But we do know God will pull us out at His appointed time.
Wes

P.S. They don't have Bibles in the pews but do have a few spares for those who may request one.

[aqrinc]

Hi Wes,

My point is not to those that are still lost but those who now understand; or maybe
The Scriptures do not mean what i think they mean?. They have not been pulled out;
we however have acknowledged that we have been pulled or dragged out. As one
called and professing to understand the Scriptures in a new and much clearer way, it
is incumbent on us to be the Light without going back to our old comfort zone. Love is
not a conditional thing in its truest form, we must love all humanity regardless but we
were not taken out of Babylon physically or Spiritually just for the moment.

When God Calls one out the beginning of separation from the world starts, so if that
first step was coming out of Babylon Spiritually why go back? This is a very difficult
walk and many hard decisions must be made daily until we learn to Really Love.

Here is an excerpt from: The Topic Love.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3719.msg27958.html#msg27958

So this is the manner in which God loves the world, with agapao love.  A love that is undeserved, they're not reciprocating, ok.  Let me give you another example of agapao love, not phileo love.  Agapao love is when they crucified Christ, and He was dying, He prayed to His Father and said, "Father forgive them, for they don't know what they are doing."  (Luke 23:34)  Now that's agape love.
Father these people are blind and deceived, oh they're fools, and they're hypocrites, blind fools as they called the Pharisees in Matt 23, none the less.  Then as it was such a strong condemnation, on the one hand, on the other hand, He says Father forgive them.  Is this a contradiction?   No, it's not.  It's the way God is and we need to be like God, ok.

We can love our neighbor, with a agape love, we don't need to fellowship, hobnob with them or become part of what they are, in any way, shape or form.  When God says, love your enemies.  If it said you would have to phileo your enemies, then I would just have to take my 9 pages of notes here, tear them up, throw them away.  Close the Bible and say, I have not a clue as to what this thing about love is, not a clue.

But I have checked it out for many, many hours now, and I understand that the Bible does not contradict in this area.  God - Jesus Christ, never said you have heard, them of old say, you should hate your enemies.
First of all, God never taught to hate your enemies.  Well, where did they hear that of old?  About five times in the book of Psalms, by David, who went to his death bed hating his enemies, telling his son to kill them and make it bloody.  That was King David, not God.  But people read the Psalms and so you heard it said.  Yes, you did hear it said, but not of God.

But Christ said, but I say unto you, love your enemies - agapao your enemies.  Can you love your enemies and hate them at the same time?  Well, you say no you can't, that's a contradiction.  Well, let's think about that for a second.  Could God hate Esau and love him a the same time?  Not only could He, the Bible tells us that, and it shows that He did.  He shows more favor to Jacob then He did for Esau, and yet you can find some pretty strong promises and blessings (even though He said I hate Esau), you can find blessings on Esau in the Bible I can show you them, ok.

God said, I hate liars and people that cause discord and everything, yet I gave My own Son for the world.  Why?, because I agapao them.
God thinks beyond their couple of three score and ten years of hate and criminality.  I look beyond that, and I see their future - agapao.  Maybe we need to learn to do that too.  If we're going to be like God, right.

george.

[Fester]

When God Calls one out the beginning of separation from the world starts, so if that
first step was coming out of Babylon Spiritually why go back? This is a very difficult
walk and many hard decisions must be made daily until we learn to Really Love.

I am out of "Babylon Spiritually" and do not partake of her just as we are instructed to do in the scriptures.  The scriptures are SPIRITUAL not physical and I am spiritually out.  Yet I still physically attend for the reasons I listed above.  Church is far from a comfort zone for me.  However, physically we still have to live in this world.  It truly is a difficult walk.  Since learning the truth I have come to 'Really Love' my family more than I ever have in the past.

[aqrinc]

I do understand your feelings and why you do it. However we do need to be aware
that being a Light; others are seeing what we do and concluding that if He or She
does it; it must be ok. I too am married for over 35 years now, my wife is still in Babylon
although not as firmly as before. We used to do all the church attending together, now
for a wedding or funeral i would still attend a service with her or a friend, certainly not
for any other purpose.

This is nothing personal just one Brother talking to the rest of the family. Respectfully we
can agree to disagree on this topic until i can understand better. We are all still carnal even
as The Spirit Grows in us so we must trust the Scriptures:

Philippians 1:6:
Being confident of this very thing, that he which has begun a good work in you will perform
it until the day of Jesus Christ:

george.

Btw; This is the main part of the excerpt that i was referring to.

We can love our neighbor, with a agape love, we don't need to fellowship, hobnob with them or become part of what they are, in any way, shape or form.  When God says, love your enemies.  If it said you would have to phileo your enemies, then I would just have to take my 9 pages of notes here, tear them up, throw them away.  Close the Bible and say, I have not a clue as to what this thing about love is, not a clue.

[Fester]

Respectfully we can agree to disagree on this topic until i can understand better.

Yes we can.

[WhoAmI]

As nice as it is to have the scriptures, having them in a building doesn't change anything. Even though I get what Alex is saying. The early church didn't have chapter and verse and yet we do and are overloaded with lies, myths and tradition etc.

[charrie]

Fester, George

We can all attest to the difficulty of putting our hands to the plow and not looking back or forsaking all and following Christ.

We are all striving towards the crown and as Father through His spirit strengthens us we grow in faith and works. 

Father looks at our hearts and its intention but the world looks on the outward man.  We are to be to the world Jesus Christ and this is our cross.

Charrie

[Deborah-Leigh]

Hi Alex

When my husband and I were in Babylon as a leaders, we were told by our "superiors" that Bibles were not going to be permitted in "leadership" meetings. It aggravated the "leadership" that we were constantly referring and quoting and turning to the Scriptures as our authority. Babylon despises the Word of God and this includes not just the leaders but the submissive followers too who have not yet been dragged out and neither have they heard the Word of God calling His People to come out. 

I use red ink to emphasise the teaching from "You Fools! You Hypocrites! You Snakes!" Quote:

Who were the Scribes and Pharisees?

The Pharisees were not the priests, but rather people from all walks of life who were very pious and strict keepers of the Law of Moses.

Arc

[mharrell08]

Respectfully we can agree to disagree on this topic until i can understand better.

Yes we can.

Matt. 10:34-39  Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household. He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me. He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.

1 Thess 5:21-23  Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. Abstain from all appearance of evil. And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

2 Tim 3:12-13  Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution. But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.


Fester, I know it is difficult (as I have a wife and 2 girls who attend church weekly), but we cannot 'agree to disagree' with scriptures. George was not proving his personal opinion, he was only commenting on what the scriptures tell us.

You stated that we should think of our loved ones as well...what about Christ? Is He not a 'loved one'?

Perhaps you could live by example by staying home and continue to worship in spirit & truth...then eventually, your family will come TO YOU and wonder about your behavior. Just a suggestion, and not trying to change your life overnight, but pointing to the spiritual truth of the matter.


Hope this helps,

Marques

[Fester]

Fester, I know it is difficult (as I have a wife and 2 girls who attend church weekly), but we cannot 'agree to disagree' with scriptures. George was not proving his personal opinion, he was only commenting on what the scriptures tell us.

You stated that we should think of our loved ones as well...what about Christ? Is He not a 'loved one'?

Perhaps you could live by example by staying home and continue to worship in spirit & truth...then eventually, your family will come TO YOU and wonder about your behavior. Just a suggestion, and not trying to change your life overnight, but pointing to the spiritual truth of the matter.

Yes George was providing his opinion based on his interpretation and personal applications of the scriptures.  Just as you have too.  George and I agree to disagree on the application of these scriptures to our lives and not on the scriptures themselves.  Neither of us disagree with the scriptures.  I interpret all the scriptures he lists and the ones you list in a spiritual manner.  Perhaps you can live your life by the 'physical' and continue to stay home and  I will live mine by 'spiritual' interpretations of the scriptures in the manner God is leading me.  Just a suggestion, and you will never change my life, only God and His spiritual truths will.

Your questions on the love of Christ are demeaning and not worthy of a reply.

[WhoAmI]

I ran into a guy the other day at the store who knows me from a church I visited in the past. He told me I was a "slacker" because I don't go to church anymore. It don't matter where you go, on here or anywhere, your gonna catch crap from people. We are the church but there is no such thing as a peaceful and loving assembly. Humans are more interested in being right and pushing their agenda than living right and focusing on self. So sad....we are.

[Fester]

Humans are more interested in being right and pushing their agenda than living right and focusing on self. So sad....we are.

I concur.

[mharrell08]

Yes George was providing his opinion based on his interpretation and personal applications of the scriptures.  Just as you have too.  George and I agree to disagree on the application of these scriptures to our lives and not on the scriptures themselves.  Neither of us disagree with the scriptures.  I interpret all the scriptures he lists and the ones you list in a spiritual manner.  Perhaps you can live your life by the 'physical' and continue to stay home and  I will live mine by 'spiritual' interpretations of the scriptures in the manner God is leading me.  Just a suggestion, and you will never change my life, only God and His spiritual truths will.

Your questions on the love of Christ are demeaning and not worthy of a reply.

Fester,

I wasn't trying to be demeaning...I was only responding to your comment where you stated 'we cannot just think of ourselves all the time'.

Matt. 8:21-22  And another of his disciples said unto him, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father. But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.

Was Christ telling this disciple to only think of himself? Placing the will of the Father above loved ones is an admirable quality...not a selfish one. Could this disciple obeyed this commandment by physically going to the bury his father but spiritually having his heart elsewhere? Was Christ telling us to come out of Babylon in our heart but we could stay physically? Are there any commandments that one could obey spiritually and not physically?

I am not interested in 'being right' or pushing an agenda...it is only to help all with understanding the scriptures and what our Lord commands. The same way many members help me and others with their comments and discussions. Hope this helps with whoever is seeking understanding...and those who are not seeking, I guess it is of no benefit for them.


Marques