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Is water baptism necessary
soberxp:
okay, both ,All roads lead to Rome :D
indianabob:
Hello Ron,
Jeffersonville, Indiana is about as far from me as you can get and still be in Indiana. What are the chances that I would meet a new friend the same age as I am? July 12, 1935 I began my journey toward the "final frontier" and I am still poking along in warp one.
Good to hear from you and hope to hear more.
Please be patient with us even if we seem strange, I'm sure
it will wear off soon enough.
Warm regards, Bob Breyfogle
E. Woods:
--- Quote from: Marky Mark on December 25, 2009, 02:08:28 PM ---
--- Quote from: soberxp on December 25, 2009, 01:18:22 PM ---yes,Jesus was baptized by John.
Matthew 3:
14 But John tried to deter him, saying, "I need to be baptized by you, and do you come to me?"
15 Jesus replied, "Let it be so now; it is proper for us to do this to fulfill all righteousness." Then John consented.
--- End quote ---
soberxp,hello.
If you are saying that we all need to be baptized by water that is a false assumption.We as true followers of Christ need to be baptized of the Spirit,not of the flesh.
GW
John 1:25 They asked John, "Why do you baptize if you're not the Messiah or Elijah or the prophet?"
John 1:26 John answered them, "I baptize with water. Someone you don't know is standing among you.
John 1:27 He's the one who comes after me. I am not worthy to untie his sandal strap."
John 1:28 This happened in Bethany on the east side of the Jordan River, where John was baptizing.
John 1:29 John saw Jesus coming toward him the next day and said, "Look! This is the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world.
John 1:30 He is the one I spoke about when I said, 'A man who comes after me was before me because he existed before I did.'
John 1:31 I didn't know who he was. However, I came to baptize with water to show him to the people of Israel."
John 1:32 John said, "I saw the Spirit come down as a dove from heaven and stay on him.
John 1:33 I didn't know who he was. But God, who sent me to baptize with water, had told me, 'When you see the Spirit come down and stay on someone, you'll know that person is the one who baptizes with the Holy Spirit.'
John 1:34 I have seen this and have declared that this is the Son of God.
Here is an email reply on baptism from Ray. Hope this helps.
http://bible-truths.com/email3.htm#baptism
--- Quote ---I want to know what you know or teach on water baptism? I have been going through some of the articles that The Divine Plan has.
I am a former World Wide Church Of God member that has been really mixed up with different teachings. Everybody has different teachings.
So far you seem to have what I Think is a closer teaching what the Word of GOD is saying... Your articles have very helpful to me.
THANKS.
P.S. I'll be keeping in touch
[Ray Replies]
Thank you for your email and question.
I don't have the time to write an whole article on the subject in an email. One day I will do that and post it on my site. But in a nut shell:
Paul tells us that we no longer know Jesus AFTER the flesh. Jesus Christ came IN THE FLESH to lead us INTO THE SPIRIT. It was paramount to be CIRCUMCISED, KEEP HOLY DAYS, KEEP SABBATH, PAY TITHES, and many PHYSICAL THINGS under the law of Moses.
Jesus came with binding laws of the spirit. In Matt. 5, 6, and 7 Jesus said
"you have heard it said [by the LAW OF MOSES]..." that you are to do this or do that, but Jesus said, "BUT I SAY UNTO YOU..."
And then He gave a different and contradicting law.
Examples:
"Swear" under Moses / DON'T SWEAR AT ALL UNDER CHRIST.
"Hate your enemies" under Moses / LOVE YOUR ENEMIES UNDER CHRIST!
"Don't commit adultery" under Moses / DON'T EVEN LOOK TO LUST AFTER A WOMAN UNDER CHRIST!
Get the point?
God said he would write His NEW COVENANT (not a revised version of the OLD COVENANT) upon the minds and hearts of His followers.
Circumcision was so very important to every Jewish man. Paul said "Circumcision IS NOTHING"!!!
So drastic was this change brought about by Jesus Christ, that Paul said that a PHYSICAL JEW of the PHYSICAL NATION OF ISRAEL, who is PHYSICALLY CIRCUMCISION in the flesh only, IS NO JEW AT ALL!!! But a GENTILE, not of the nation of Israel, and NOT PHYSICALLY CIRCUMCISED in the flesh, but CIRCUMCISED IN HIS HEART, HE, A GENTILE, IS A JEW!!! (Rom. 2:27-29).
Now then, with that in mind turn to Col.2:19-13:
"And ye are COMPLETE IN HIM, which is the head of all principality and power: In Whom also ye ARE CIRCUMCISED [how?] with the circumcision MADE WITHOUT HANDS, in putting off the body of the SINS OF THE FLESH by the CIRCUMCISION OF CHRIST: buried with Him in BAPTISM [how? same way! "without hands" or water], wherein also ye ARE RISEN WITH HIM through the faith of the operation of God, Who has raised Him from the dead. And you, being DEAD IN YOUR SINS and the uncircumcision of your flesh, has he quickened [made alive] together with Him, having FORGIVEN YOU ALL TRESPASSES."
According to Paul, "How many baptisms are there?"
"There is ONE body, and ONE Spirit, even as ye are called in ONE hope of your calling; ONE Lord, ONE faith, ONE BAPTISM, ONE God and Father of all, Who is above all, and through all, and in you all" (Eph. 4:4-6).
Water baptism avails us NOTHING unless we are BAPTIZED INTO CHRIST (Rom. 6:3-7) with a baptism WITHOUT HANDS--not of the letter and the flesh, but of the SPIRIT!
Nothing that we do that starts in the flesh can add one cubic to our spiritual stature.
Hope that helps your understanding a little better.
God be with you,
Ray
--- End quote ---
Peace...Mark
Hello Mark
Can you explain Mark 16:16? ( He who believes and is BAPTIZED will be saved )
Thanks EJW
--- End quote ---
Kat:
Hi EJW,
I thought I would post these emails about baptizm for you.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,8982.0.html ----
I have always said that we must be baptized. But remember that there is "ONLY ONE BAPTISM" (Eph 4:5). I don't know many people who believe this Scripture. We are to be baptized in spirit JUST as we are to be circumcised in heart and spirit (without hands--Col. 2:11-12). I don't know many Christians who believe this Scripture. We are to be baptized into Jesus Christ's NAME (Acts 2:28); and baptized into Jesus' DEATH (Rom. 6:3-4). But if one believes being baptized in physical water will get the job done, well then, God bless you. God didn't call me to baptize (I Cor. 1:13-17). Until and unless one is baptized with the Holy Spirit, he will only go down dry and come up wet (John 1:33).
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3292.0.html ----
Yes, baptism is a symbol. How in the world could being immersed into water be anything but a symbol OF SOMETHING ELSE. People are immersed in water every time they go swimming. What does THAT accomplish in their spiritual life? Immersion in water SYMBOLIZED a persons desire to bury his old self and be washed clean of sin. Just performing the ritual of being baptized in water will not, however, accomplish this. Only if you are baptized IN HEART AND SPIRIT is it of any value. All the males of Israel were circumcised the 8th day for centuries. Did that ritual convert a single Jew? No, of course not. It SYMBOLIZED something that can only be accomplished in one's heart and mind and spirit.
Baptism pictures something: "Therefore we are buried with Him by baptism INTO DEATH: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, EVEN SO we also should walk in NEWNESS OF LIFE" (Rom. 6:1-4). Baptism is OF THE HEART AND SPIRIT, or it is worthless and is no baptism at all. Hope this helps your understanding.
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,328.0.html ---------
I don't have a church. I am a member of GOD'S CHURCH, and it is a spiritual organism, not a physical building with man-made creeds.
Paul stopped baptizing altogether after he learned that no physical ritual will make anyone spiritual. We are baptized in spirit, not water; we are circumcised in spirit, not in the flesh; we partake of Christ's body not in the physical with bread, but in the spirit, etc.
Matt. 28:19--"...baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit....:" IS NOT SCRIPTURE. That part of a verse was inserted by the Catholic Church hundreds of years after the apostles.
God be with you,
Ray
Dave in Tenn:
Welcome, Ron. You figured out how to post just fine. :D
We could enlarge the question. Is water baptism necessary for who?
It's necessary to gain admittance into most Christian denominations.
Let the precious babes in Christ be baptized in water. Let those with a Spiritual mind understand the symbolism they are participating in. Let those with a carnal mind believe their sins are being washed away with physical water. Let the infants cry (or be well-behaved) as their parents and fellow parishioners believe what they are taught concerning the rite. Let those going through the religious motions to please others or earn favor with God enjoy their reward.
Let the denominational theologians argue with each other over the questions of whether, by what mode, when, and why to baptize in water. Let the more strident among them sentence, in fantasia, their rival religionists to eternal torment, separation, or annihilation. Let the fearful in the pews worry about the efficacy of their own baptism, or hop from church to church seeking the 'right' baptism. Let them remain babes. Let them lose what Love and Hope they had in those precious early times.
Let them who have eyes to see and ears to hear heed what the Spirit is saying to the churches. Let His people come out of her, this mystery babylon the great and her harlot daughters. Let's ask this question: Is it necessary to water baptize those who are being Spirit-baptized? I'm sticking with 'No'.
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