> General Discussions
Is water baptism necessary
mharrell08:
--- Quote from: EJW on December 28, 2009, 10:36:11 AM ---Hello Kat.
Thanks for the e-mails about baptism by Ray.
After reading them, I am still confused. I don't want to argue, and I WON'T,
And I don't give a hoot what other people believe, I am just trying to understand Gods' Word.
Do you have any idea why, Jesus Christ got baptized when He had no sins?
and why did Peter COMMAND Cornelius and his household to be baptized with water after
they had already received the Holy Spirit?
Yes, baptism is a symbol, So is the American flag, and I am proud to let people know I am an American.
But you don't have to be an American to fly the American flag. It's not wrong to fly the American flag.
Dave in Tenn.
It looked liked Peter thought it WAS necessary to baptize those who were already spirit-baptized.
I'm sticking to I don't know the answer.
Be Happy, EJW
--- End quote ---
Hello EJW,
Could you state for myself and the other members exactly what you believe concerning water baptism? Do you believe it necessary? Do you believe it as something that is not harmful if one fulfills it's spiritual reality? I think if you could clear up your statements a little, it would avoid any arguments. No offense intended
Marques
Linny:
I was reading today and came across this email by Ray...
Dear Almon:
Is it the fact that you find a Scripture stating something in the Word of God that you conclude that we should "do it?"
I have absolutely nothing against anyone who wishes to keep the Lord's supper. I have nothing against anyone who wishes to be circumcised or be baptized. I have nothing against anyone who wishes to sacrifice animals or offer sin offerings, burnt offerings, peace offerings and the like.
Gen. 6:14 commands: "Make THEE an ark of gopher wood...." I have nothing against anyone who wants to follow this command and "Make an ark of gopher wood."
There are hundreds of things commanded in the Scriptures. I have nothing against anyone who wishes to do ALL OF THEM. I don't. I never made an ark of gopher wood, and never intend to.
Any just why don "I" do any of these things? Well, actually I used to do some of them. I used to pay my THREE tithes (oh you didn't know that there were THREE tithes?). I was water baptized. I used to wash my brothers feet, and I used to partake of the Lord's supper once a year. And now I don't. Why not? Because there is absolutely nothing physical that can make one spiritual.
Paul baptized at one time in his ministry and then he quit. Why? Because he put away childish things and went on to spiritual maturity.
Paul used to circumcise in his early ministry and then he quit. Why? Because he put away childish things and went on to spiritual maturity.
All physical rituals are CARNAL ordinances, and we are no longer under carnal ordinances. We are now under the "Law of the Spirit of Life." "We know longer know Jesus after the FLESH." Jesus HIMSELF said: "The flesh profits NOTHING." "The words that I speak unto you, they are SPIRIT and they are LIFE."
Although it was mighty important in Christ's time to worship in THIS mountain or in THAT mountain, Jesus Himself said that the time would come (and so it has) that we no longer worship here or there or in this manner or in that manner, with this set of physical rituals, or with that set of physical rituals, but rather WE WORSHIP IN SPIRIT AND IN TRUTH.
We are to WORSHIP IN SPIRIT AND IN TRUTH! Now then, does anyone think that we can add to those instructions by adding a few physical, carnal, rituals? I think not.
I hope this helps your understanding a little better.
God be with you,
Ray
Samson:
Very Good Linda,
You hit the nail on the head, so to speak with your Post of Ray's Email, None of these Physical Acts are wrong, but are they necessary to have God's approval and will they make you Spiritual. They certainly won't aid you in manifesting the Fruitage of God's Spirit(Galatians.5:22,23). I copied and pasted part of your Email quote of Ray's below for emphasis.
All physical rituals are CARNAL ordinances, and we are no longer under carnal ordinances. We are now under the "Law of the Spirit of Life." "We know longer know Jesus after the FLESH." Jesus HIMSELF said: "The flesh profits NOTHING." "The words that I speak unto you, they are SPIRIT and they are LIFE."
Kind Regards, Samson.
Kat:
Hi EJW,
--- Quote ---Do you have any idea why, Jesus Christ got baptized when He had no sins?
--- End quote ---
Mat 3:13 Then Jesus came from Galilee to John at the Jordan to be baptized by him.
v. 14 And John tried to prevent Him, saying, "I need to be baptized by You, and are You coming to me?"
v. 15 But Jesus answered and said to him, "Permit it to be so now, for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness." Then he allowed Him.
Physically speaking (you have been given plenty of good spiritual info), Jesus was simply fulfilling the requirements to enter into the Melchizedek priesthood so He could be our High Priest.
Heb 5:10 being designated by God a high priest after the order of Melchizedek.
Jesus said "to fulfill all righteousness," as a Jew He was following the Old Testament law.
Rom 10:5 For Moses writes about the righteousness which is of the law,
Mat 5:17 "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.
Exo 29:1 And this is what you shall do to them to hallow them for ministering to Me as priests: Take one young bull and two rams without blemish,
v. 2 and unleavened bread, unleavened cakes mixed with oil, and unleavened wafers anointed with oil (you shall make them of wheat flour).
v. 3 You shall put them in one basket and bring them in the basket, with the bull and the two rams.
v. 4 "And Aaron and his sons you shall bring to the door of the tabernacle of meeting, and you shall wash them with water. (also Ex. 29:4)
Jesus was baptized because He had to fulfill the legal requirements for entering into the priesthood. He was priest after the order of Melchizedek.
Psa 110:4 The LORD has sworn and will not change his mind, "You are a priest forever after the order of Melchizedek."
Heb 6:20 where Jesus has gone as a forerunner on our behalf, having become a high priest forever after the order of Melchizedek.
Priests in the Old testament offered sacrifice to God on behalf of the people. Jesus became a sacrifice/sin offering Himself for our sin in His role as priest.
2Co 5:21 For the One not knowing sin, He makes to be a sin offering for our sakes that we may be becoming God's righteousness in Him. (CLV)
mercy, peace and love
Kat
E. Woods:
--- Quote from: mharrell08 on December 28, 2009, 11:12:17 AM ---
--- Quote from: EJW on December 28, 2009, 10:36:11 AM ---Hello Kat.
Thanks for the e-mails about baptism by Ray.
After reading them, I am still confused. I don't want to argue, and I WON'T,
And I don't give a hoot what other people believe, I am just trying to understand Gods' Word.
Do you have any idea why, Jesus Christ got baptized when He had no sins?
and why did Peter COMMAND Cornelius and his household to be baptized with water after
they had already received the Holy Spirit?
Yes, baptism is a symbol, So is the American flag, and I am proud to let people know I am an American.
But you don't have to be an American to fly the American flag. It's not wrong to fly the American flag.
Dave in Tenn.
It looked liked Peter thought it WAS necessary to baptize those who were already spirit-baptized.
I'm sticking to I don't know the answer.
Be Happy, EJW
--- End quote ---
Hello EJW,
Could you state for myself and the other members exactly what you believe concerning water baptism? Do you believe it necessary? Do you believe it as something that is not harmful if one fulfills it's spiritual reality? I think if you could clear up your statements a little, it would avoid any arguments. No offense intended
--- End quote ---
Marques
Hello Marques
Thank You for your reply.
I enjoy hearing from people as to what they believe, and what they think about certian things.
You did not offend me in the least, so don't worry about that.
I will be glad to explain what I believe, and try to clear up any doubts you have about what I believe.
But will not argure, and it is NOT my purpose to start one.
I think people should be able to state their opinion, or get opinions from others, without trying to force
their beliefs on others, whether here on the fourm, or any other place. when you start doing that
you are dangerously close to becoming a cult.
Now to explain what I believe
If Jesus Christ got baptized, What is wrong with it?
Acts 2:37-41, The men and borthren gathered in Jerusalem to keep the Day of Pentecost asked Peter
and the rest of the apostles " what shall we do " what did Peter say? "Repent and be baptized in the name of
Jesus Christ " and those who gladly received Peter's words were BAPTIZED.
And AFTER the Holy Spirit fell upon Cornelius and his household, Peter COMMANDED them to be BAPTIZED
in the name of the Lord. Acts 10;48
NOW BY THE SCRIPTURES, it looks like baptism was commanded, or at least practiced even after
people received the Holy Spirit. And Paul Acts 16:12-15, was in the city of Philipi and on the Sabath
day and he went outside the city where prayer was customarily made, and the Lord open the heart
of a woman named Lydia to heed the things spoken by Paul, her and her household were baptized.
And Paul told the keeper of the prison when he ask Paul "What must I do to be saved." Paul said
believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved. but they didn't stop there.
they got baptized. Acts 16:31-33.
Now do I believe baptism should be done? YES when ever possible.
What about the thief on the cross? He was not baptized, and I don't think Christ told him to go
get baptized or you can't come with me to Paradise. So therefore under certian circumstances,
it must not be necessary.
Marques, I hope this clears up my statement for you. If not let me know.
Be Happy. EJW
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