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Why did Jesus say "why do you call me good?"
GinaMilan:
Hi there, John
I hope all is well with you. I realize your question was for Deb, but since it's only 5:10 a.m. her time , and since I was the one who brought the Isaiah verse up, I hope you and Deb won't mind me jumping in here? Maybe this will help -- it's a second witness that I honestly never noticed before. Ray brought it up at the Mobile Conference and when he did that, I felt safe repeating and believing it:
So, let’s think for a moment on who or what is God the Father, okay. He’s the brains behind everything. Am I right? He’s the Supreme Deity of the universe, God the Father. He’s all powerful, all knowing, all wise, omnipotent, right? All loving, all caring, all those things. Is there anything else that you can think of that God is? You might say, ‘well, He’s a father and Jesus isn’t a father.‘ Oh yeah? Read Isaiah.
Isa 64:8 But now, O LORD, You art our Father; we are the clay, and You our potter; and we all are the work of Your hand.
Source: http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,11521.0.html
2 Corinthians 6 (NIV)
As God has said: "I will live with them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they will be my people."
17"Therefore come out from them
and be separate, says the Lord.
Touch no unclean thing,
and I will receive you."
18"I will be a Father to you,
and you will be my sons and daughters, says the Lord Almighty."
And further, Paul was a father to the Corinthians:
1 Corinthians 4:15 (Amplified) After all, though you should have ten thousand teachers (guides to direct you) in Christ, yet you do not have many fathers. For I became your father in Christ Jesus through the glad tidings (the Gospel).
Paul said, follow me as I follow Christ
1 Corinthians 11:1 Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.
And since Paul was following Christ and became a father to the Corinthians, and us too, we will be become [like?] fathers, that is if we are to be in the image of Jesus Christ Who is Himself the express image of His Father. We're going to be made into Their image, so it follows that we should have all of Their attributes.
This doesn't detract from God the Father, I don't believe. And Jesus is many things in addition to being a Father.
I hope that helps a little.
Kind regards,
Gina
Stacey:
Hi Gina, good find there. I see Ray's words and the Scripture you quoted right in front of me but now questions are coming up in my head. Gonna have to read over it probably many more times before it sinks in. :)
G. Driggs:
Another witness:
Jer 31:9 They shall come with weeping, and with supplications will I lead them: I will cause them to walk by the rivers of waters in a straight way, wherein they shall not stumble: for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn.
God the Father and God the Son are One God, one Spirit.
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[Someone says; Isa 9:6 For to us a Child is born, to us a Son is given; and the government shall be on His shoulder; and His name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.]
Some will say wait a minute, “The everlasting Father?” Christ (Jehovah) says, He was a Father to Israel. He’s the eonian God to Israel. So are we understanding God better?
Okay, let’s take this a little farther. We read about God/Elohim, we learn about the Lord God - Jehovah/Elohim, and sometimes we hear about El.
Now we know in the garden, Christ... though Jehovah is doing the talking, because no man has ever heard God the Father. So the Lord God (Jehovah/Elohim) said unto the woman, “and the Lord God said…” Why did He say ‘said’? Because He’s the spokesman, He’s the Word. He’s the Word of who? Elohim, and He is Jehovah/Elohim and His Father is Elohim. There is only one Elohim. So it’s the Lord God - Jehovah/Elohim.
When we come to the NT then we read about God. Jesus Christ said, they ask Him what is the greatest commandment, He said “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind” (Matt 22:37). The Greek says, you shall love the Kurios your Theos with all your heart and so on.
Kurios/Theos… who was He talking about? The Father. He’s quoting the OT, that comes out of Deuteronomy, where Jehovah Himself says, “You shall love the Lord your God” (Deu 6:5). Not Kurios/Theos, but Jehovah/Elohim.
Well who are we to worship with all our heart? Jehovah/Elohim or Kurios/Theos of the NT, who we know is the Father. But Jehovah/Elohim (where it’s quoted from the OT), is Jesus Christ. Who is it talking about? It’s always talking about BOTH. ALWAYS!
Even though we give Jesus the designation Jehovah/Elohim, it still includes the Father. Why? Because there is only ONE Elohim! He is the Jehovah, one God - there is the Father, one God and together they are the one God. You just have to believe the scriptures.
John 10:30 I and My Father are one.
One what? One God and it’s understood, We are one... one God. We two, are one. Whenever two are of the same mind and spirit, they are considered one.
Now we only have one analogy of that in the scripture, and it’s of a husband and wife. Isn’t it interesting when He says that they are joined together. Because when you are joined together, it’s like you stick a plug in the wall. The plug that you stick in is the male and the wall plug is called the female. So it’s when a man and woman join there bodies. They are literally inside of each others body, they are one, see, literally they are one. That is the most intimate relationship there is, on the human plain, sexual intercourse with a man and a woman, you literally become one body. Because it signifies being one in Spirit. But Paul says he speaks of this concerning Christ and the church in Ephesians. He says this is a great mystery.
Eph 5:28 So husbands ought to love their own wives as their own bodies; he who loves his wife loves himself.
v. 29 For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as the Lord does the church.
See the connection.
Eph 5:30 For we are members of His body, of His flesh and of His bones.
v. 31 "For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh."
v. 32 This is a great mystery, but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
So what is it about Jesus and His Father, that make them one? I mean they don’t have a sexual union, they are both masculine. How do they be, one? There is one other all encompassing factor….. they are one Spirit!
You could get a superficial feeling of this, when you have a group of men in the army, let’s say the navy seals or somebody. They are so precisely trained to do one job together, that 6 of them function as one, see. They are multiple individuals, but function as one. We call it, I think it’s Latin, Esprit de corps….. the spirit of the corps, the group. That’s what Jesus Christ and God His Father have, they have a lot of Esprit de corps. They are one Spirit, it’s the same spirit and it’s the same spirit of perfection wisdom and knowledge, love and power. Same Spirit! How could they both have that and not be God? But there is only one Spirit.
Wherever God gives His spirit in this room, it’s all the same spirit. Those of us who have that spirit, have a certain Esprit de corps with one another. Now we don’t do it as well, I realize that and some of us are virtually strangers. But if we can talk to each other for an hour or so and know that we have that bond. You would trust me and I would trust you anywhere. Why? Because you have the spirit of God.
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Hope this helps John.
Peace, G.Driggs
GinaMilan:
Yeah, Stacey, it never gets boring.
Seriously, G. Driggs, that's fantastic. (Kat, once again, thank you for typing those videos up!)
Deborah-Leigh:
Hey John
Another thing I enjoy about you, is your mature approach and adult contribution. Not afraid to say something. I see strenght of Spirit. Not picky at all. :) I know you better than that! Your view point has a harmonious application to improve, motivate and encourage understanding to not stand still or sink. I appreciate and have cause to consider what you are meaning or pointing out... :)
Gina, the best things happen when I am fast asleep... :D...that excerpt goes very well with what I was seeing before John contributed another thought to the process of seeing as ONE. We are children, brothers, sisters, Sons, Daughters and then the Wife of Christ as His Church that has come out of legalism and the criteria of humanism. The carnal lusty, cranky, picky choosy, sniveling, bickering old man(woman) is behind us and we move in the comprehensive insight that we are, WE are, you, I, John, Kat….the believers….of One are ONE. Like the marriage of male and female there is no longer two but one and we as sons, daughters and brothers and sisters become One in the Mind and Spirit, Heart and Soul of our Creator who is our Husband. The lust of the flesh, the deceptions of the lust of the eyes, appearances and divisions, the pride of life to defend, compete, be right, not be wrong, be better not worse, be higher not lower, the head not the tail desires for achievement of man lies dead behind us as we understand our unity in Spirit and in Truth that the Father of our Lord, is seeking as we learn to helplessly worship, blindly obey and irresistibly manifest His Spirit and His Truth. God all in all.
For there is now no longer male and female…..
What you contributed G Driggs
--- Quote ---It’s always talking about BOTH. ALWAYS!
--- End quote ---
WE, you, I, us have to always include BOTH, Gal 3:28 There cannot be Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is no male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus….. Say You say me…say it together…. ALWAYS as we communicate as ONE from behind the walls of doubt….come out….that’s the way it should be. Together….. :)
Hey John, Gina, Kat G Driggs….together… for always…that’s the way it should be. Can we hear Paul….there is no male nor female…Can we hear God…
We, the both always, are the dawn of tomorrow today. The consummation of all that is written of God, by God, that is God out of and from God, our God right? RIGHT! :D :)
The Plan, Purpose and Will is, was and shall be: Eph 4:13 until all of US (including those who can not be made perfect without US (Heb 11:40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect ) are united in the faith and in the full knowledge of God's Son, and until we attain mature adulthood and the full standard of development in Christ.
Yesterday, today and tomorrow. ONE God. Living not dead, risen not fallen, alive in Spirit and Truth. That’s ONE. His work and Spirit in us. His love made living and rising in our hearts, feeling for one another, praying for each other and believing in One God.
Is that more or less what you were seeing John? :)
Arc
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