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Anyone Go here?
DougE6:
John from Kentucky.... Pro 25:11 A word fitly spoken is like apples of gold in pictures of silver. That was a very nice answer to what could have been construed to be a criticism.
I understand both what you have said and what Marques and Craig have said. I like both of what has been said. Yes there are definitely different perspectives possible on such a broad topic.
My agreement is with you both. If I could put forth one perspective I see, and I am open to criticism on it. The early church was deeply involved in sharing of worldly goods and supporting each other. They took up collections for widows and orphans. They also were deeply evangelistic to the unreached. Those are examples that we should follow. I do not think it is bad to see this work being done by this church and then respecting what they are doing. I will not go deeper than that, as far as judging them or their motives. I simply thank God that they are doing that and then I compare myself to those works, and see if I measure up. I just don’t want to be a hearer and a learner only, I want to be a doer, and I respect people who do, and do give of themselves sacrificially. I would never categorically state that their works will merely burn up. Let Jesus judgement seat decide that. I have my hands full judging myself already.
cjwood:
--- Quote from: Craig on December 27, 2010, 10:09:55 AM ---
... The ones who lead these masses and know they are wrong or only do it for personal gain is the ones that our righteous anger should be pointed too.
first of all, i want to say that i have been reading and re-reading this thread and all the posts that have been written on it, because i believe something is going on, between the lines, in some of the posts. the, there's an elephant in the room, but we're not talking about it, kind of feeling. it is something i am sensing in the gut of my soul. something that has stirred within my spirit. i don't know what it is, but i believe there are those who do. most importantly, i know that He knows what it is about.
the reason i copied and bolded the above statement by craig is because, after re-reading the posts written prior to craig's exhortation, i don't believe anyone was taking am at the blind/deaf ones sitting in the pews. it is those who preach, teach, and deceive those that sit under their counsel that are the recipients of the 'righteous anger'. when the statement was expressed to 'don't be so hard on these guys', my reaction after the first read of the posts prior to that statement was, no one seems to be being hard on the guys who sat in church, but on those who mislead, and lie to those who sit listening. after re-reading the posts, i still do not believe any one was being, high-minded, puffed up, with a better than they are attitude. i did not see pride in any of the posts that would require a fall. i just didn't.
claudia
--- End quote ---
Craig:
Thanks Claudia for catching my mistake in my original question, I did not reread it before posting. I did say what you said.
There was no ulterior motive for my post and I think I am pretty blunt with my posts (probably to a fault) and I don't think it matters what my original question was, as my reason for posting remains the same. My reason for the follow-up post was to remind everyone we are no better than anyone sitting in the pews every week. Whenever the church question comes up (this does not just single out this thread) we are quick to condemn by post and pm. I just wanted to point out that we should not do this, and why, and that I am guilty also.
Perhaps the posts were meant to condemn the leaders but unfortunately when we talk about the churches we make the members guilty by association. People forget that Jesus speaks of the good attributes of the churches in Revelation 2 & 3 also. We have many more visitors than members and it would be sad for a person who is being pulled from the church to see us as the enemy or unloving elitists or even worse like those Ray talks about in "The kiss of Death" paper.
When I asked what they are "really like" I just wondered if the news story was true or if this church was the same as all the other mega-churches? Because if the story was true then this church is definitely heading in a better direction. Nobody posting from the other side of the world or the country or the state would know for sure unless they went there or knew someone who did, Kathy's response was what I was asking for, and I am still curious if anyone knows anyone.
I did not meant to single anyone out as we all are guilty of our feelings. I want John to know I was not picking on him, as I suspect I am cut from the same mold as he is :)
Craig
Linny:
I totally understand what you are saying Craig as I have to work diligently on a daily, maybe even minute by minute basis, to keep myself off of any pedestal for knowing what I know. Human nature is a hard enemy and quite frankly, I like to be right.
I would like to say one thing. I read a lot here about the deceptive preachers but I have a brother-in-law who is a preacher and who I obviously believe is teaching falsities. While I agree that there are MANY who are teaching lies to further themselves financially and selling whatever they can using God to make a profit, I don't think we can put them all in the same category. My brother-in-law is a dear man with a huge heart. He truly believes what he teaches is truth (he unfortunately has his doctorate in theology) as was proven when he had a long discussion about hell with my husband. His final thoughts were simply, "I hope you are right." This is not the heart of a man who wishes torture on anyone. And he too is exactly where he is supposed to be.
That last statement is one I have to repeat over and over again to myself.
Craig:
Doggone John, I had you pictured as a tie dyed shirt wearing flower child that sang Kumbayah every morning when waking up. :o
Craig
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