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CARNAL NATURE
DougE6:
Claudia,
way to get to the "heart" of the matter. Well said. It all stems from the heart.
Doug
mharrell08:
--- Quote from: DougE6 on February 15, 2011, 04:51:59 PM ---You are right that some things we cannot know for sure. But AT LEAST surely God must of started anew with Adam, in a giant and profound manner, (don't you think?) no matter what type of man-being(yes I do, like Ray, believe in a long God directed creation process) may have preceded Adam, because Adam was the start of the race of the ones to be made into His image. No other being has this honor.
--- End quote ---
That's not true either Doug. God said He is making man into His image in Gen 1:26-27. And as scientific evidence continues to show us, this happened long before Adam was created.
It is much more credible to believe that Adam was evolved from humans created in times past, than to be created out of literal dirt.
Also, getting back to the original subject, we're using more and more terms to describe the same thing and it's causing this subject to become very confusing. No offense to the original poster, but this entire premise was on false belief. A carnal mind is synonymous with a carnal nature, as it is the same as a carnal heart. Further more, the heart is the seat of emotions in the mind, and it only causes confusion to try to separate those two.
Jesus was made into human flesh but did not have a carnal heart, carnal nature, or carnal mind. Those three terms are pretty much all the same and none apply to the Son of the Highest. There have been ample scriptures provided that state Jesus was Holy and Righteous. Also, there have not been any scriptures given that state Jesus was made the same as Adam or had a carnal nature/mind or any of the sort. Jesus overcame the world, through The Father and that is the example we are to follow.
Marques
DougE6:
Hi Marques
Why is it more credible to believe that Adam evolved from humans from times past, than created from literal dirt?? I think it is INcredible to believe any of the following came into being without Gods direct intervention in evolutionary process... birds evolving from reptiles, amphibians from fish, mammals from reptiles, powered flight from terrestrial walkers, the metamorphosis of caterpillar to butterfly, feathers, mitochondria, that life(let alone the amazing complexity of cellular life) came into existence from inorganic slime, that DNA arose from only natural processes, that the genetic language(code) came into being on its own due solely to natural causes like selection, that human language was accidental, that Adam evolved from apes, that all the huge leaps, the increasing information, and advances in evolution came about without the direct intervention(miracle) of God. I see Adams creation in the same way. Another direct intervention in a continuing process that is ever ongoing. That is why the Genesis account of both the creation of the earth and cosmos and the creation of man are accounts of direct intervention, interspersed with time between each work. (days).
To me, the creation of Adam from dirt, is not incredible at all. And I have no doubt that Jesus was a singular man, who walked the earth. And as Jesus is contrasted to Adam, I think Adam too, had to be an individual, similarly. There have been scripturally speaking, ONLY two men on this earth. the First Man, and the Second Man, the First Adam, and the Second Adam. ( There is no third or 500,000,000th man. We are either in Adam, or in Christ. I like all the spiritual lessons, understandings, and symbolism in being created from dirt, and I don't think it is less credible to believe in a creation from dirt, just as I believe God created everything else by stepping in many times.
Peace
Doug
mharrell08:
--- Quote from: DougE6 on February 16, 2011, 11:30:09 AM ---Hi Marques
Why is it more credible to believe that Adam evolved from humans from times past, than created from literal dirt??
I like all the spiritual lessons, understandings, and symbolism in being created from dirt, and I don't think it is less credible to believe in a creation from dirt, just as I believe God created everything else by stepping in many times.
--- End quote ---
Because there seems to be more scientific evidence to suggest this possibility. We know God had direct intervention with Adam from the conversations they had, as recorded in the Scriptures. Also, God doesn't need to 'step in' to anything, when was He ever out? All things have their cohesion through God [Col 1:17] as God is working all things through Him [Eph 1:11].
My point was simply, we don't know, for sure, if being made from the dust of the ground is literal or not. You accept on faith that God made Adam out of dirt and that's fine.
And though Adam is said to be a shadow of Christ, that does not mean they are the same or even created the same. Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit [Matt 1:20], whereas Adam was made from the 'breath of life' [Gen 2:7]. This same 'breath of life' is in all humans [Gen 7:22, Job 27:3, Ecc 3:19]. Jesus was born from a woman's womb but no man's sperm involved...you yourself believe that Adam was literally made from dirt. Many differences, especially in terms of how they came about in human form. Adam was carnal, Jesus was not, etc...
The reason why I have given this subject this much attention is because of this notion that Adam & Jesus were alike in some way. You misspoke when you said Jesus is contrasted TO Adam, He is not. Paul 'contrasts' between the two because they are completely different. The very definition of contrast is to compare in order to show their differences.
The church teaches that Adam was perfect like Christ, but 'freely' chose to do evil. They don't understand what carnality is and why Adam had no other recourse but to succumb to his carnality, just as any other human being. That is why Paul says we bear this image (carnal man indulging in his flesh) now, but later we shall bear the image of our Lord in Heaven [1 Cor 15:49].
I'm going to have to bow out now, too many subjects running in so many directions. But please stay with what the scriptures tell us, not what we suppose or speculate. Faith is about trusting God to do what He says He will do and/or has done. What can we believe if we place our conjecture before what He actually tells us?
Marques
Deborah-Leigh:
1Co 15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy:
The first MAN, not the first Adam, the first man, is of the earth.
The first ADAM is a sentient natural man, made a living soul.
1Co 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul;
The LAST ADAM is a quickening Spirit.
1Co 15:45 ...the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
The italics (was made) are not in the original manuscripts, are spurious. The "was made" is not true of the quickening Spirit.
~ The first man is of the earth, the second man is of Heaven. ~
The last man that the Scriptures refer to is the man who desires to be first, that must be last and servant of all as is, was and ever shall be, Jesus Christ is Himself.
Jesus is first and last, Son of man, Son of God, Alpha and Omega.
The SECOND man, is of Heaven.
1Co 15:47 ...the second man is the Lord from heaven.
We are of the second man of Heaven, and we bear the image of the first man of earth. The Spirit of the Last Adam, is revealed by the second man of Heaven, Christ in us
The last Adam is not said to be man. As Ray observes.... God is Spirit....
Arc
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