> General Discussions
Are you afraid of God? / Is Jesus God? / Who is God?
Kat:
Hi Bob,
God the Father is most definitely Creator of Jesus Christ.
Rev 3:14 ...These things says the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God:
But with the creation of Jesus Christ then all the rest of creating the universe was turned over to the Son.
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
v. 2 He was in the beginning with God.
v. 3 All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Just want to bring this out from the conference "The Father's Will.'
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3720.0.html ----------------------
Jesus Christ is the GOD OF THE OLD TESTAMENT. Jesus Christ WAS God and Jesus Christ IS God. And yes, Jesus always had and still has a God (Eph 1:17). But the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, has NO God. It was Jesus Christ (Elohim - US) who created the heavens and the earth and humanity, “…in OUR image.”
In Rev. 19:16 it says Christ had, “on His thigh He has a name written,” the Word of God.
There’s no getting around it, the Logos, the Word is Jesus Christ.
The creator of heaven and earth is Jesus Christ.
The creator of the human race is Jesus Christ.
No man has ever seen God, only Jesus Christ.
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Jesus was created by the Father; Heb 1:2; Rev 3:14. Jesus Christ was created and than became the Creator of all. So when you talk about Jesus Christ, you are talking about God. But you are talking about the One who was begotten in the God family, and one who could be emptied and formed such as a man.
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When they hung Christ on the cross, they crucified their own Creator.
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I have to do the will of the Father. So whatever He did was the will of the Father. And the one who did the will of the Father is the one who really loved the Father of humanity, Jesus Christ, the creator of heaven and earth and the human race.
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He is the Firstfruit of those who slept, He’s the first of everything, that His name may be first preeminent above any and every and all, because He is the Creator. He emptied Himself, became the Savior of the world. He will forever be the preeminent One, in the whole universe.
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John 5:30 - “I seek not Mine Own will, but the Will of My Father.”
This is the Creator of the whole universe talking here, who made the constellations, the galaxies, stars, the milky Way, He made the mountains, and the oceans too. But He can do nothing, He got it all from the Father. God is from the Father, He got life from the Father. Now if you don’t exist except by the Father, how can you take credit for anything?
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mercy, peace and love
Kat
One Love:
Hi Eirik
Wonderful post, just like you, I'm trying to sum up Mr. Smith's teaching. I read this teaching about 3 times now and still uncertain, I'm going to drift away from your post about "Are you afraid of God? / Is Jesus God? / Who is God?"
Kat
You always inspire and teach me with your post, like I said before "You're Blessed" with the word.
Please help me with this, I could have missed something. "WHO DID JACOB SEE" God The Father or Lord God?
These are quotes from Mr. Smith's teachings:
Gen 32:30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face and my life is preserved.
How about that? God told Moses he could not see His face and live. But Jacob said, I saw Him face to face and I‘m still here to tell about it.
John 5:37 And the Father Himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of Me. Ye have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His shape.
So Moses was told that he couldn’t see His face and live and Jacob said I saw His face and I lived. What’s going on here?
John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time…
“No man has seen God,” not just those sitting in front of Him, “NO MAN has seen God AT ANY TIME.” Now we’ve pretty much nailed it, right? Not just those that I was talking to the other day, “but no man at any time…”
v. 18 …the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, He hath declared Him.
So “no man at any time,” okay? No man has seen Him at any time.
Now when Jesus says “God,” He means the Father. When He said “no man has seen God,” He means God the Father.
As in it was God the Father that gave Christ works to do…
It was God the Father that sent Jesus…
It was God the Father which you have neither heard His voice…
It was God the Father that no man hath seen at any time….
One Love:
Hey!
I "THINK" I've got it, It must be obvious that Jacob saw Lord GOD.
--- Quote ---Jesus was created by the Father; Heb 1:2; Rev 3:14. Jesus Christ was created and than became the Creator of all. So when you talk about Jesus Christ, you are talking about God. But you are talking about the One who was begotten in the God family, and one who could be emptied and formed such as a man.
--- End quote ---
Thank you Kitty KAT
Kat:
Hi Gordon,
Yes Jesus Christ is the Lord God of the Old Testament, but He emptied Himself to be born into the flesh of a man after these accounts in the OT.
Php 2:6 who, though He was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped,
Php 2:7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men.
Now when Moses ask the Lord that he wanted to see Him, Ray brought out in the Bible study that Moses had ask to see the Lord's "glory."
Exo 33:18 And he said, "Please, show me Your glory."
Here is what God answered to Moses.
Exo 33:20 But He said, "You cannot see My face; for no man shall see Me, and live."
I'm wondering if that is the difference right there. Moses wanted to see God in His "glory" and His answer to that was you cannot do it and live.
In the account of Jacob wrestlng with God, it states.
Gen 32:24 And Jacob was left alone. And a MAN wrestled with him until the breaking of the day.
Gen 32:30 So Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: "For I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved."
Also "the Lord" appeared to quite a few others in the Old Testament as well.
Exo 33:10 All the people saw the pillar of cloud standing at the tabernacle door, and all the people rose and worshiped, each man in his tent door.
v. 11 So the LORD spoke to Moses face to face, as a man speaks to his friend. And he would return to the camp, but his servant Joshua the son of Nun, a young man, did not depart from the tabernacle.
Gen 12:7 Then the LORD appeared to Abram and said, "To your descendants I will give this land."
Gen 26:24 And the LORD appeared to him (Isaac) the same night and said, "I am the God of your father Abraham; do not fear, for I am with you. I will bless you and multiply your descendants for My servant Abraham's sake."
1Sam 3:21 Then the LORD appeared again in Shiloh. For the LORD revealed Himself to Samuel in Shiloh by the word of the LORD.
All I can think of is when He, the Lord God, appeared to these people it was in some form other than His glorious state of being or these people could not have seen Him and lived. I would think He could appear as he did to the disciples after His resurrection, in the form of a man. But I guess we will just have to wait until Ray comes out with a detailed explanation.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
JohnMichael:
Kat & Others,
I have wrestled with this quite a bit over the past few days. I was brought up being taught about the Oneness of God. Jesus was God in flesh, and that it was Jesus' humanity (flesh) that was praying to His Spirit in the garden and on the cross. It was also taught that His humanity was the Son of God, but His Spirit was God. I don't want to be guilty of "putting any other gods" before Him, so this has really been getting to me since I read "Is Jesus God?"
Something that really confuses me is if no man has seen or heard the Father, then who was speaking at the baptism of Jesus? Surely, Jesus wasn't doing a ventriloquist act? I don't mean that out of disrespect. That's the one thing that really throws a monkey wrench in it all.
I did get a little inspiration a few moments ago while in prayer, Jesus is the Word of God. I mean the actual, spiritual, Word of God. Please correct me if I'm wrong here. Suddenly, a bunch of verses made since. How "The Word was with God and the Word was God, and the Word was made flesh" or "Beside me, there is none" and "I myself cannot do anything except by the Father" and even "My Word will not return to me void (Jesus being the Savior of ALL)."
Your voice is you, but it can't do anything without you kind of thing. You communicate through your voice.
But the baptism still makes me scratch my head.
I think it is through a glass darkly yet, but it gave me something to munch on - that's for sure.
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