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What exactly is heaven?
Kat:
Hi Marques,
John 8:28 Then Jesus said to them, When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you shall know that I AM, and that I do nothing of Myself, but as My Father has taught Me, I speak these things.
Jesus says that He did absolutely nothing of Himself, all that He spoke and all that He was doing was directed by the Father. He was totally one with the Father and as such He was perfectly in the Father's will and "always" pleased Him.
John 8:29 And He who sent Me is with Me. The Father has not left Me alone, for I always do those things which please Him.
We are being lead by the Holy Spirit indwelling, but we all know we can not be perfectly in tune with the Father while we are still in the carnal flesh. We're learning, but but can't be perfectly like Jesus yet, as Paul states.
Php 3:12 Not that I did already obtain, or have been already perfected; but I pursue, if also I may lay hold of that for which also I was laid hold of by the Christ Jesus;
My thought is that when we are 'born' into spirit, we enter His kingdom fully sons and daughters and become 'one' with God and then we "shall be LIKE Him."
1John 3:2 Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be. But we know that when He shall be revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.
Christ was perfect even in the flesh, because He was totally and completely one with the Father. Won't the Elect be born into the kingdom and inherit the promise and be 'one' with the Father? So the Elect will be perfect, because they are one - totally and completely united with the source of perfection?
unit•ed adj 1 : made one : combined 2 : relating to or produced by joint action 3 : being in agreement : harmonious
1Co 13:9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part:
v. 10 but when that which is perfect is come, that which is in part shall be done away.
v. 11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I felt as a child, I thought as a child: now that I am become a man, I have put away childish things.
v. 12 For now we see in a mirror, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I have been known.
The Elect will only be brought completely into His image at resurrection, then they will "always" do His will just like Jesus Christ always does His will. I don't see what we need to learn when we are directly united/one with God. Won't He tell/inspire us to say and do everything just like He did Jesus Christ? I don't mean take away our personality, we shall all retain our own individuality, but we will be perfectly in tune with God and serve Him perfectly, right?
mercy, peace and love
Kat
Deborah-Leigh:
To add to the beautiful and profound insights offered so far:
We are told in the Psalms that God's life has no END, and in the Greek New Testament in Luke, that God's Kingdom will "have NO END." ........Of course the word "eternity" also means not having a BEGINNING either. http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4489.0.html
There is one interesting statement in Isa. 57:15 which states that the "Lofty One inhabits eternity" (King James). But as we know the Scriptures know nothing of "eternity," this is a wrong translation. "Eternity" is taken from the Hebrew word "ad" and it has to do with the future, not the modern concept of "eternity." Concordant translates it "Who tabernacles the FUTURE..." and Rotherham has "inhabiting futurity..." Which suggests nothing regarding the past.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4475.0.html
If you want to come up with an analogy of where God is in His own realm, as far as time goes. The closest physical analogy you could come up with is a circle. Not starting back there and going this way, that way is the past and this way is the future.
Now if the realm of eternity is as a circle, can somebody point to where eternity begins on a circle? Can anyone show me, on this circle, where eternity ends? You can’t, can you.
Now I’ll give you another little mind boggler, not only can you not show me where it begins or where it ends, I’m telling you it has no beginning and it has no end. It doesn’t move in a circle, it is a circle. Therefore time has nothing to do with eternity.
Even your dictionaries most of them, not all, say eternity is an endless period. Eternity has nothing to do with time, time starts here and goes to there.
Eternity is like a circle, you can’t find the beginning and you can’t find the end. Because it has no beginning and it has no end. Therefore in that sense a circle is ultimate truth. So God knows there can never be any thing more perfect than He is. And that’s where He introduces Himself to us. http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php?topic=3720.0
gmik:
Kat, your post talks as tho we will be similar to earth ways and things---I just don't see that- when Ray says that its a higher spiritual realm--as we are IN HIM--- I can't see us w/ bodies, and personalities and such
or
I could be confused!! ;)
Deborah-Leigh:
Thank you for this Thread Grace. :)
Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace:
Rom 8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope:
~ God the Eternal Father of Christ the Alpha and Omega, is with us always, even unto the end of the world.~
Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen
Marky Mark:
--- Quote ---Thanks Mark...and even reading the scriptures and other teachings, I still feel that perfection takes more than our lifetimes to achieve. The passages you referred speak of us becoming perfect which I have no doubt. But I don't think it's a wise assumption that this will be accomplished in the twinkling of an eye. I just think it takes time, God's time.
--- End quote ---
Marques my friend, do you have chapter and verse that align with what you speak of? To assume something that is not spoken of in Scripture is treading on slippery ground. Gods Word is the only basis in which we should believe,not ones own wisdom.
Deu 4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish [ought] from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.
Rev 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
Rev 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
If the house of God is being judged now,[because we are not yet perfect],does this also mean that we will have to be judged and overcome sin again, after the first resurrection? Is it not the process of overcoming that makes us perfect[complete]? Did not Jesus overcome temptation all through His life and then was perfected after His resurrection?
Luk 13:32 And he said unto them, Go ye, and tell that fox, Behold, I cast out devils, and I do cures to day and to morrow, and the third day I shall be perfected.
If we are to be as He is, then would not being raised from the dead be our perfection?
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ,
Luk 6:40 The disciple is not above his master: but every one that is perfect shall be as his master.
Peace...Mark
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