> General Discussions
What exactly is heaven?
Kat:
Hi Marques,
I see what you mean. But it would not be an instantaneously perfection like the church teaches, the Elect go through much preparation in this lifetime. But now we only have the earnest of the Spirit, when this carnal flesh is removed and we are born of God we would have full access to the Holy Spirit. Like Jesus could not sin while in the flesh, because the Father would not let Him, we too could serve Him without error, because He would see to it in us also. I don't see that as our acconplishment. I know we would not even come close to being like the Father, but like Jesus Christ to serve the Father.
But I know there is more to this, I guess we will have to wait for what Ray has to say on this.
Gena,
--- Quote ---Kat, your post talks as tho we will be similar to earth ways and things---I just don't see that- when Ray says that its a higher spiritual realm--as we are IN HIM--- I can't see us w/ bodies, and personalities and such
--- End quote ---
Ray speaks on this in the article 'The Origin of Endless Punishment.'
http://bible-truths.com/lake16-C.html ----------
The "body" of the deceased is gone forever. In resurrection to immortality, God gives everyone a new spiritual body. God can bring back the person in any "body" He desires. When God puts your "spirit" (not you soul) but your spirit (which has no consciousness) back into another body (as in a resurrection with a new spiritual body), the same real person/soul will live again. God can do this, but man can’t, so fear God.
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So I think the Elect would be "like" Jesus Christ was after His resurrection. He was able to appear at will in a flesh body that the disciples recognized or did not recognize, whatever He desired. But he could also disappear and be in His glorious spiritual body that they could not see. But as Jesus talked to the disciples and interacted with them He was the "same real person" as they remembered and I would think that will be much the same for the resurrected Elect. We would not lose our individuality and personality that makes us who we are. Why would God be creating all these unique people if not to give His family diversity and I would think He would want to keep that. Just some thoughts though.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
Deborah-Leigh:
It is heartening to be part of the maturity in the discussion and sharing in this Thread.
Ray gives us “an analogy for God” ....... you can’t find the beginning and you can’t find the end.... Therefore TIME has NOTHING TO DO WITH ETERNITY. L Ray Smith
Though time be billions of years old to a human mind, and a human perspective, it remains so, that God, is not human.
“Still, we are hardly able to visualise this spacetime continuum, or deal with it in practical terms, because human consciousness is bound to the human body, which is in turn bound to a single reference frame. “http://www.thebigview.com/spacetime/timedilation.html
This scientific insight might be seen to be Scripturally confirmed in the following :
Rom 8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of Him who hath subjected the same in hope:
Hope, unfettered to the human consciousness bound to the human body, in turn bound to a single reference in birth, ageing then death, is what we are finding in Christ who simultaneously is both Alpha and Omega, beginning and end, at the same TIME. That Time is Now, set free of past or future and liberated into a portal of time that God Himself calls Today. Heb 4 : 7
Neither having beginning of days, nor end of life, is the Son of God, the Alpha and the Omega of everything, and of Whom, we are, His Children.
God has answered Time for all Time in the creation of His Son, the Alpha and the Omega. Sounds like a Paradox that God the Eternal, would create a Son who is beginning and end. Yet to a human mind, the paradox is unfathomable because a human mind sees differently to God.
1Co 2:10 But God has revealed them to us by His Spirit; for the Spirit searches all things, yea, the deep things of God.
Jesus is Alfa AND Omega, simultaneously, at the same time, as in both cause and effect. Not over there Alpha and over here Omega, but THE Alpha and Omega, Total, Perfect, One in God, of God and with God.
A human will distance cause from effect, God from His Son, and time from eternity, though the Scriptures clearly state:
Act 17:28 For in Him we live, and move, and have OUR being...
Who is with us until the end of the world.
The end of the world is not the end of us, but of the world. Mat 28:20 ..........lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen
Certainly the duration of a human life is an instant by contrast to the backdrop of the age of the Universe being some 14 billion years old. Yet, extend this thought for just a moment.
For a human, birth and death are a beginning and end. Yet Jesus clearly demonstrates a breaking out of the box. Jesus broke a human lock on time, being death.
The way to the Resurrection and the Life of God has nothing to do with death that has nothing of Christ, Who has overcome death and is our wholeness and salvation made certain.
In a nut shell. God the Father has answered Time for all Time in the instant His Son showed us death is obsolete and has no tabernacle in His Life nor altar of worship in His mind.
How unlike a human can you be?
Jesus is the “missing link”.....
Arc
Deborah-Leigh:
What exactly is Heaven?
The Love of God for His Son and the Love of His Son for His Father is IMO, Heaven.
1Co 13:13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity. :)
Arc
Marky Mark:
Marques,we are all a work in progress and as Kat stated, it is a work of His accomplishments that He does within us that has any type of Truth to the Faithful. Anything that we try to bring to the table concerning our own beliefs outside of Scripture has zero Spiritual significance to the Father.
You are correct when you speak of the Fruit of the Spirit,that is what being perfected of the Spirit is all about,being humble,repenting,and conforming Spiritually to our Lord and Savior.
Psa 10:17 LORD, thou hast heard the desire of the humble: thou wilt prepare their heart, thou wilt cause thine ear to hear:
1Pe 5:6 Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time:
Being argumentative was not my intention :),being true to the Word of God is ;).
Peace...Mark
One Love:
What exactly is heaven?
--- Quote --- 'heaven' is a spiritual realm, not a place.
--- End quote ---
from Here is an email. http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3212.0.html -----
Insert taken from Mr. Smith's paper "The Father's Will"
So let’s think about this a little bit, who is the Father? In Him we live and breath and have our being. Liken the ocean to the Spirit of God, and liken us to the fish. The fish are 95% water, the ocean is in the fish, and the fish are in the ocean, get it.
A bird has very porous bones, because they have to be very light. It flies in the heavens, it breaths fast, because it needs strength and oxygen. So the air (which is like the Spirit of God, which is what he calls it in the NT, Greek word for spirit is pheuma), the expanse is even called heaven, where the bird flies, and liken the air to the Spirit of God. The bird has air in him and is flying through the air.
Now this is what the Scriptures say, we are in God and God is in us. So, get it out of your head that God is a man, sitting on a stone throne, like Abraham Lincoln in Washington D.C., an old man with gray hair. God is right here, it (Bible) says so, we have to just listen to the words.
God is Spirit, it also says God is invisible, you can’t see Him, not literally. We can see Him in Spirit, as in our heart, in our mind, our soul, our spirit, in our innermost being.
The thing that makes us different from plants and other animals, is we can see God. I’m trying to help you right now, to see God. So when you leave here, you will see God in a way you didn’t, when you walked in here. If God opens it up to you, I can only tell you, but God must open it up for you to grasp it.
God is here, not here because we are here, but He was here before we got here and He’ll still be after we leave. Because this desk is here and this desk has it's cohesion in Jesus Christ. It is through Jesus Christ that this desk holds together or it would fall apart. It takes energy and power, what is the source of the power, Jesus Christ, which comes from the Father and it’s passed off out of Him. One Father, one God, all and everything is out of Him. GOD IS ALMIGHTY!
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