> General Discussions
Will We Ever 'See' the Father?
Craig:
Hey Bob according to Alex I'm elderly and in my forties. I wonder what you are? Ancient? Indianabob BC?
Looking for my walker....
Craig
lilitalienboi16:
--- Quote from: daywalker on June 28, 2011, 05:50:47 PM ---
--- Quote from: Kat on June 28, 2011, 05:22:32 PM ---
Well as I said, I did believe that God the Father could not be contained to a shape or image. It just seemed that He was too immense/glorious for that to me. But in the last Bible study what Ray was saying made me rethink this whole thing. Here is little part of the Bible study.
--- End quote ---
I'm with ya, Kat!
I don't believe the Father could be "contained" to a shape or form, but who's to say that He can't "appear" in a shape or form, like Jesus did several times after His resurrection? I mean, if Jesus is capable of walking the earth in human form, I would venture to say the Father could if He wanted to. I'm well aware that God is not a human, and no I don't believe the Father is 'an old man with a long grey beard' sitting on some throne somewhere in the celestials (LOL), but that doesn't mean He couldn't "appear" as one if He wanted to. As I said earlier, Jesus never said the Father had NO "voice" or "form". That doesn't belittle Him or 'reduce' Him one iota, in my opinion.
Sometimes, I think people let their imaginations run wild with all this "spiritual" stuff (meaning: spiritual beings, spiritual things). Just because "spirit beings" are invisible to us, doesn't mean they can't be visible ever, at all. Take angels and demons for example. I believe they exist. I can't see them, but I believe they are here. Can angels see each other? I think so. Can demons see each other? I think so. But how? Well, they must have a "form" of some sort that is visible to other spirit beings. How else would "Legion" have known that they "were many" if they couldn't see each other? When God spoke to Satan before Job's trials, could God see Satan? I think so. That would require Satan to have some sort of form, I venture. Could Satan see God? That's a good question, in my opinion. Jesus said no "man" has ever seen God at any time, but Satan is not a man, so perhaps he can see God?
Just speculation, I know. But things gotta make sense to me, and I don't see how the idea of us all being completely "invisible" not being able to see each other, interact with each other, can be of any comfort or joy. I'd like to think that when it's all said and done, we can all hang out together and chat about old times...that could just be my carnal side, though. :D
Just sayin... Daywalker 8)
--- End quote ---
What you said makes alot of sense daywalker! Some great points and I also agree with kat.
I can't imagine going an eternity without never trully seeing the Father, hearing HIS voice. For now, I'll deal with it, but comon.. you can't hold out on me forever!! xD <3
Dave in Tenn:
Maybe we've already "seen" the Father. I'll use the quotation marks because Marques did.
Joh 14:7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
Joh 14:8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
Joh 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
Joh 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
Joh 14:11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.
The fish is in the water. The water is in the fish. Jesus is the "everlasting (age-abiding) Father".
Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Anyways, John chapter 14 is deep stuff, and the apostles didn't understand it either. Still, Jesus saith ..."because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed". One of these days, eyes are not going to matter. Blessed is he who is getting a taste of that now.
Kat:
Hi Dave,
That reminds me of the email I sent Ray a little while ago, I had ask that question.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,7500.0.html --------
The other part of John 5 also says "you have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His shape." Yet Christ seems to be stating that the disciples did see the Father when they see Him.
COMMENT: He not only "seems to be stating," He literally IS stating. But if the Father is invisible spirit, how can He be seen through visible humanity?
Are we to believe that somehow the Father looks like a man? And doesn't the Bible say that "God is NOT a man?" Actually, it doesn't. We are yet allowing the theology of Christendom to influence our thinking. I have used Numbers 23:19 myself in the past as a verse that shows that "God is not a man." But that is not really what this verse or I Sam. 15:29 are saying at all. There is no period (.) after the word "man" in either verse.
When one sees a comma or a semi-colon, it means that there is more to follow, and often brings out a totally different textual meaning than is meant by presenting only fragments of a sentence. The same is true with teaching that God never changes. What proof do we have for this? Why Mal. 3:6, right? Wrong! Read it: "For I am the LORD, [comma] I change NOT; [semi-colon--ah, there's more to follow that shows in what WAYS God does not change]..." More on all these things later in my study.
v
Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
COMMENT: Yes He is. But think about this: As Jesus is the image of His Father, His Father MUST HAVE AN IMAGE. Not only is Jesus the image of the invisible God, but He made humanity likewise: "Let Us make man [Heb: 'humanity'] IN OUR IMAGE" (Gen. 1:26). I have known for thirty years that the Hebrew word for "image" always means "form, image, and shape," and never means "spiritual or moral character." So how can humanity be made in God's "image" if He doesn't have an image?
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Just thought I would add this to the discussion.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
grapehound:
Dave in Tenn, that's a very valid point. I'm inclined to agree.
Kat, bless you for that mail excerpt; very illuminating.
Every blessing,
Grape
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