> General Discussions
"Soul Sleep"
Deborah-Leigh:
Death is not physical. We die daily.
Life is not physical. We have the earnest of His Spirit in our hearts who is the Way the Truth and the Life.
The earnest of His Spirit in our hearts does not die, though we sleep.
Seeing as Jesus sees, is being awake.
Jesus is come in the flesh.
Jesus likens death to sleep.
The Scriptures tell us to wake up. Rom 13:11 This is necessary because you know the times-that it's time for you to wake up from sleep.
Arc
Ian:
Thank you all for the comments. While further researching the subject, I found... this artcle ***No Links Allowed***
Now I do not agree with what she says, as she seems to be ignoring context. For example...
--- Quote --- 2. Scripture teaches that the spirits of men are fully conscious after separation
from the body at death.
e. They can feel pain.
Luke 16:23, 24
Revelation 20:10 ("torment" = Greek basanizo, meaning "to vex with
great pain" – as Matthew 8:29)
--- End quote ---
What does Rev 20:10 have to do with "separation from the body at death"?
Could something critique this for me?
Kat:
Hi Ian,
Luke 16:23 And in hell he lifted up his eyes, being in torments, and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
Concerning this verse in Luke, here is where Ray explains it.
http://bible-truths.com/lazarus.html ----------------
And how could this man "literally" lift up his eyes in "hell" seeing that hell is the translation of the Greek word hades which means the UNSEEN or IMPERCEPTIBLE? To "see" one can’t be in the UNSEEN, nor can it be a place of NO perception. The parable says that he "died" and was entombed, but that he "lifts up his eyes" in hades. He can’t be literally dead and literally alive at the same time and in two different locations.
Hades is a Greek word (and is synonymous with Sheol in the Hebrew O.T.) and it has a meaning. The elements are "UN-PERCEIVED." It can be properly translated into English as "unseen" or "imperceptible." Now how can one "see" in the unseen?" It’s ridiculous. How can anyone have "perception" in the "imperceptible?" The dead can’t "see," It’s a parable.
There is no consciousness in [Heb: Sheol] or [Gk: Hades](Psa. 146:4)--none. "Sheol" and "Hades" are synonymous in Scripture.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote ---What does Rev 20:10 have to do with "separation from the body at death"?
--- End quote ---
Rev 20:10 And the Devil who deceived them was cast into the Lake of Fire and Brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet were . And he will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
Rev. 20 is speaking of the the resurrection, when all will face judgement, even Satan, which will seem quite torturous to some.
Here is where Ray speaks about this.
http://bible-truths.com/lake1.html --------------------------------
Next I present a Scripture that many fundamentalists hate. I’ll bet if you attended a fundamentalist church, you never heard a sermon on this verse. We read that God has appointed a day (a period of time) in which He will "JUDGE" the whole world. Revelation 20:10-15 IS THAT DAY OF JUDGMENT! Now we know that those not found in the book of life will be put into FIRE, and they will be TORMENTED. This is certainly part of this judgment. But it is not literal fire. Literal fire burns up physical things and literal fire cannot harm spiritual things. So what does the fire do or accomplish? MUCH!
This judgment in Revelation 20 IS that worldwide judgment spoken of in many prophecies. But is the purpose of this worldwide judgment to torture people by burning their flesh in real fire for all eternity? Is that HOW God judges in "righteousness"? Absolutely not. We just read where God burns up our fleshly WORKS, and this is "tormenting" for sure. But God does not torture our flesh for all eternity. Don’t get me wrong, there will be severe chastisements on those who despise God and His Savior and His Gospel. But out of their ashes will come salvation. Here is another marvelous Scripture which answers what happens to sinning humanity when God JUDGES THE WORLD in righteousness.
"For he [GOD] bringeth down them that dwell on high; the lofty city, he layeth it low, HE LAYETH IT LOW, even to the ground, he bringeth it even to the dust" (Isa. 26:5)
Make no mistake, God will judge the wicked with great severity. However, ALWAYS FOR A BENEVOLENT PURPOSE:
"With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early: for when Thy judgments are in the earth, THE INHABITANTS OF THE WORLD WILL LEARN RIGHTEOUSNESS" (Isaiah 26:9)!!
There will come a time when those who only knew how to blaspheme the name of God, will come to LEARN RIGHTEOUSNESS. They will not just "hear" of righteousness, no, they will actually "LEARN RIGHTEOUSNESS"!
The whole book of Isaiah speaks of judgments on Israel and on the nations. But the end of all these judgments is SALVATION TO ALL. Notice Isa. 45:22-23,
"Look unto me, and BE YE SAVED, ALL THE ENDS OF THE EARTH: for I am God, and there is none else. I have sworn by Myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness [as in, ‘For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; Who WILL HAVE ALL MEN TO BE SAVED, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth,’ I Tim. 2:3-4] , and shall not return, That unto me EVERY KNEE SHALL BOW, EVERY TONGUE SHALL SWEAR" (See also: Phil. 2: 9-11 & I Cor. 12:3).
God’s words will NOT return empty or void. When God speaks, it will be done. When God wills, it will be done. When God desires, His desires WILL BE DONE:
"Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, MY COUNSEL SHALL STAND, and I WILL DO ALL MY PLEASURE ... I have spoken it, I WILL ALSO BRING IT TO PASS; I HAVE PURPOSED IT, I WILL ALSO DO IT" (Isa. 46:10-11).
Oh the blasphemy of those who teach that God’s most heartfelt desires WILL NOT COME TO PASS, but will utterly fail!!! Jesus Christ is not the potential Savior of the world; He IS THE SAVIOR OF THE WORLD!!! HE WILL SAVE THE WORLD!!!
How many self-appointed, bible-thumping, doomsday, fire and brimstone, eternal torture in hell preachers believe these verses in Isaiah? Not one that I know of! Most Christians have never been taught the Scriptures that I am giving you. These things are despised by many who call themselves "Christian." And yet, God’s Word is FULL of such statements of God’s salvation to all.
--------------------------------------------------------------
mercy, peace and love
Kat
daywalker:
--- Quote from: Ian on July 05, 2011, 04:20:24 PM ---Thank you all for the comments. While further researching the subject, I found... this artcle ***No Links Allowed***
Now I do not agree with what she says, as she seems to be ignoring context. For example...
--- Quote --- 2. Scripture teaches that the spirits of men are fully conscious after separation
from the body at death.
e. They can feel pain.
Luke 16:23, 24
Revelation 20:10 ("torment" = Greek basanizo, meaning "to vex with
great pain" – as Matthew 8:29)
--- End quote ---
What does Rev 20:10 have to do with "separation from the body at death"?
Could something critique this for me?
--- End quote ---
Absolutely nothing.
And the Adversary who is deceiving them was cast into the lake of fire and sulphur, where the wild beast and where the false prophet are also. And they shall be tormented day and night for the eons of the eons. (Concordant)
Neither the Adversary, the wild beast, or the false prophet are beings that are separated from their bodies.
Luke 16:23-24 is part of a parable (Rich man and Lazarus). But don't try to convince Christians that parables are "fictional", because they're convinced that a finger dipped in water can actually cool your tongue if you're engulfed in fire ("send Lazarus that he should be dipping the tip of his finger in water and cooling my tongue, for I am pained in this flame"). Seriously...
Daywalker 8)
Ian:
--- Quote from: daywalker on July 05, 2011, 06:17:58 PM ---
--- Quote from: Ian on July 05, 2011, 04:20:24 PM ---Thank you all for the comments. While further researching the subject, I found... this artcle ***No Links Allowed***
Now I do not agree with what she says, as she seems to be ignoring context. For example...
--- Quote --- 2. Scripture teaches that the spirits of men are fully conscious after separation
from the body at death.
e. They can feel pain.
Luke 16:23, 24
Revelation 20:10 ("torment" = Greek basanizo, meaning "to vex with
great pain" – as Matthew 8:29)
--- End quote ---
What does Rev 20:10 have to do with "separation from the body at death"?
Could something critique this for me?
--- End quote ---
Absolutely nothing.
And the Adversary who is deceiving them was cast into the lake of fire and sulphur, where the wild beast and where the false prophet are also. And they shall be tormented day and night for the eons of the eons. (Concordant)
Neither the Adversary, the wild beast, or the false prophet are beings that are separated from their bodies.
Luke 16:23-24 is part of a parable (Rich man and Lazarus). But don't try to convince Christians that parables are "fictional", because they're convinced that a finger dipped in water can actually cool your tongue if you're engulfed in fire ("send Lazarus that he should be dipping the tip of his finger in water and cooling my tongue, for I am pained in this flame"). Seriously...
Daywalker 8)
--- End quote ---
It was a hypothetical question. I know that "neither the Adversary, the wild beast, or the false prophet are beings that are separated from their bodies."
The reason I ask is because it seems that she violently rips verses out of their contexts.
Thank you for responding!
Oh, when I wrote "Could something critique this for me?" I was alluding to the page as a whole, not the text.
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