> General Discussions
Luke 23:34 - Ray's comments added, last post
G. Driggs:
--- Quote from: John from Kentucky on August 23, 2011, 12:02:41 AM ---
My friend, I do not have a problem with you. Nor with the Word of God. I do believe that mankind will be held accountable for our actions. I do not believe that the world is on any permanent "hook". Jesus is our Savior. He lets everyone off the "hook" after a period of judgment. Everyone gets saved.
As to the Father taking Jesus' life. Do you not realize that the Scriptures you quoted above, Acts 4:26-28, says that very thing? It was the Father's Hand and Counsel that determined what happened to Jesus. The same Hand and Counsel that determines what happens to us. No one can take anything out of His Hands.
--- End quote ---
Did you not notice I agreed with you that God was responsible? My point was that we are accountable.
Please do not put words like "permanent hook" in my mouth, I never said that. Also please stop lumping me (and Ray) in with "Christian ministers and priests". This is not the first time you have said that to me after repeating what I have learned here.
Everything I have said to you I learned from Ray. I believe them because the grace of God caused me to study them, test the spirits and found them to be true.
Give me a little credit, your not the only one who believes God is sovereign. You just don't seem to understand exactly how He exercises His sovereignty. Quite often He does it through putting us in circumstances where He knows we will do what we naturally and voluntarily want to do. That is how (to me) all is of God, and that is how we are accountable, because we wanted to do it. All we needed was the opportunity, which is the circumstances God put us in.
This has been very hard for me to wrap my head around. I've often asked God the same question the Romans asked the apostle Paul.
Rom 9:19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will [Greek:intention]?
I did not want to be accountable after realizing God is the cause of all the evil I've experienced. I was very mad and still get mad at Him sometimes. One of the only things that keeps me going is the belief God does all that He does for my ultimate good, even if it hurts like hell.
--- Quote from: John from Kentucky on August 23, 2011, 06:37:42 PM ---Well, well, well. Maybe old Tischendorf and the Sinaiticus manuscript were right after all? Maybe Luke 23:34 is spurious. Why would Jesus ask the Father to forgive the evil men who killed Him when Jesus knew it was the Father behind it all?
--- End quote ---
How convenient of you to suddenly change your beliefs. You dont need no man to teach you, study for yourself and be convinced in your own mind.
I'm done here. Anything else you wanna say to me send me a pm.
Peace "bro"
G.Driggs
John from Kentucky:
--- Quote from: G. Driggs on August 23, 2011, 07:32:05 PM ---
--- Quote from: John from Kentucky on August 23, 2011, 12:02:41 AM ---
My friend, I do not have a problem with you. Nor with the Word of God. I do believe that mankind will be held accountable for our actions. I do not believe that the world is on any permanent "hook". Jesus is our Savior. He lets everyone off the "hook" after a period of judgment. Everyone gets saved.
As to the Father taking Jesus' life. Do you not realize that the Scriptures you quoted above, Acts 4:26-28, says that very thing? It was the Father's Hand and Counsel that determined what happened to Jesus. The same Hand and Counsel that determines what happens to us. No one can take anything out of His Hands.
--- End quote ---
Did you not notice I agreed with you that God was responsible? My point was that we are accountable.
Please do not put words like "permanent hook" in my mouth, I never said that. Also please stop lumping me (and Ray) in with "Christian ministers and priests". This is not the first time you have said that to me after repeating what I have learned here.
Everything I have said to you I learned from Ray. I believe them because the grace of God caused me to study them, test the spirits and found them to be true.
Give me a little credit, your not the only one who believes God is sovereign. You just don't seem to understand exactly how He exercises His sovereignty. Quite often He does it through putting us in circumstances where He knows we will do what we naturally and voluntarily want to do. That is how (to me) all is of God, and that is how we are accountable, because we wanted to do it. All we needed was the opportunity, which is the circumstances God put us in.
This has been very hard for me to wrap my head around. I've often asked God the same question the Romans asked the apostle Paul.
Rom 9:19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will [Greek:intention]?
I did not want to be accountable after realizing God is the cause of all the evil I've experienced. I was very mad and still get mad at Him sometimes. One of the only things that keeps me going is the belief God does all that He does for my ultimate good, even if it hurts like hell.
--- Quote from: John from Kentucky on August 23, 2011, 06:37:42 PM ---Well, well, well. Maybe old Tischendorf and the Sinaiticus manuscript were right after all? Maybe Luke 23:34 is spurious. Why would Jesus ask the Father to forgive the evil men who killed Him when Jesus knew it was the Father behind it all?
--- End quote ---
How convenient of you to suddenly change your beliefs. You dont need no man to teach you, study for yourself and be convinced in your own mind.
I'm done here. Anything else you wanna say to me send me a pm.
Peace "bro"
G.Driggs
--- End quote ---
Sorry I offended you. I'm like a kidney stone. Sometimes I'm hard to pass.
Marky Mark:
John, you seem to think that you have no part in the outcome of how God is working through you. Is God repenting for you of your sins or do you have some type of accountability in what choices you make? All of us here know that the Father is in total control of His creation[no free will],but does that also mean that you have no part in His plan and purpose concerning your own life?
One can easily fall back and rest on one's laurels and just say "what the heck,God is responsible for everything and what I do has no matter in the situation" or we can be pro-active in our own lives and seek Spiritual things on a Spiritual level,getting beyond the things of the flesh. Just because the Father predestined what the outcome of His creation is does not take away anything of what your part is.
By not answering my questions...
--- Quote ---So then are you saying that you are free from any sin concerning the death of Jesus?
--- End quote ---
and
--- Quote ---When you live outside the Word of God would you not say that would be the same as killing him,Spiritualy speaking?
--- End quote ---
your spirit of denial is apparent and that is totally ok. God has you at this moment in time exactly where you need to be and its all right to be in that condition. All really is of God.
If we do not see every word of Scripture to be seen,heard, and lived with Spiritual eyes [within ourselves],for our own admonition, then judgement within has not yet begun.
Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
Rev 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
Mat 26:56 But all this has taken place in order that the writings of the Prophets may be fulfilled." At this point the disciples all left Him and fled.
Mar 14:50 Then all the disciples abandoned Him and ran away.
Peace...Mark
John from Kentucky:
--- Quote from: Marky Mark on August 24, 2011, 12:25:31 PM ---John, you seem to think that you have no part in the outcome of how God is working through you. Is God repenting for you of your sins or do you have some type of accountability in what choices you make? All of us here know that the Father is in total control of His creation[no free will],but does that also mean that you have no part in His plan and purpose concerning your own life?
One can easily fall back and rest on one's laurels and just say "what the heck,God is responsible for everything and what I do has no matter in the situation" or we can be pro-active in our own lives and seek Spiritual things on a Spiritual level,getting beyond the things of the flesh. Just because the Father predestined what the outcome of His creation is does not take away anything of what your part is.
By not answering my questions...
--- Quote ---So then are you saying that you are free from any sin concerning the death of Jesus?
--- End quote ---
and
--- Quote ---When you live outside the Word of God would you not say that would be the same as killing him,Spiritualy speaking?
--- End quote ---
your spirit of denial is apparent and that is totally ok. God has you at this moment in time exactly where you need to be and its all right to be in that condition. All really is of God.
If we do not see every word of Scripture to be seen,heard, and lived with Spiritual eyes [within ourselves],for our own admonition, then judgement within has not yet begun.
Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
Rev 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
Mat 26:56 But all this has taken place in order that the writings of the Prophets may be fulfilled." At this point the disciples all left Him and fled.
Mar 14:50 Then all the disciples abandoned Him and ran away.
Peace...Mark
--- End quote ---
Spare me the sermon and judgment. I could go to any church in my city tonight and get the same christian nonsense.
I didn't answer your questions because I don't want to argue. I get bored easily.
But you need to hear and understand something. The Father is totally sovereign in everything. Everything! Speaking for myself, there is absolutely no good in me whatsoever. Everything I now am, everything I will be, it all comes from the Father. All. Both the desire and will to do good, and any good actions that I do, it is all from the Spirit of the Father and Jesus (same spirit) within me. I can of my own self do nothing. My fingers typing on this keyboard is from God as is the next second of my life, if He so decides.
I now know that all who teach and believe what I just said will suffer persecution and resentment. Why would that be? Because the Beast within doesn't want to die. Free will keeps it alive. Many here will claim they believe in the sovereignty of God, but deep down, deep down, they cling to the false idea that they can do good. That they are in control. That God must reward them for the "good" that they do. It keeps the Beast within them alive.
If what I just said causes a twinge within you or resentment, then understand it is not from me. I am insignificant and of no importance. Who am I? Look within yourself and ask the Spirit of God to judge your heart.
Now my sermon is over. I guess we're even. ;D ;D ;D
DougE6:
--- Quote ---Many here will claim they believe in the sovereignty of God, but deep down, deep down, they cling to the false idea that they can do good. That they are in control. That God must reward them for the "good" that they do. It keeps the Beast within them alive.
--- End quote ---
Thats quite a judgement to make. Do you really know for sure that that judgement is true?
--- Quote --- Look within yourself and ask the Spirit of God to judge your heart.
--- End quote ---
can you explain how you judge your heart, if you believe as you do? If every thought, action, and deed, that you commit, are ALL the direct act of the Father, then how do you judge your thoughts actions and heart? Are you not merely just judging what God is doing? Are you really judging yourself?
Is it ONLY just about coming to the realization that you yourself can do nothing? Is that the whole crux of it all? Is the entire point of this that whatever you think, do, and feel, if we come to the realization that God is actually the ONE DOING it all, that is REALLY the ONLY iimportant point? So if I commit a sin, as long as I realize that I am helpless before what God has decided that I would be doing at that time, as long as I realize that, that is the only spiritual point that matters? Is that what you are saying?
And I really was waiting for your answer concerning
--- Quote ---So then are you saying that you are free from any sin concerning the death of Jesus?
--- End quote ---
That is a HUGE question. it is not worth a demeaning dodge like,
--- Quote ---I didn't answer your questions because I don't want to argue. I get bored easily
--- End quote ---
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