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How do we know if we're converted?
Kat:
Hi River,
--- Quote --- How is one to know when it is "no longer" since one can't live eternally? What then of those who don't have a desire so say for 20 years and then one day it changes? And since we are carnal creatures with a physical organ called the brain and this chemistry can be changed due to life changes, injury etc. how can it be judged on "desire"? Is not desire a carnal attribute?
--- End quote ---
Also remember that God is in control of all things and the Elect are "His workmanship."
Eph 2:10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to good works, which God has before ordained that we should walk in them.
God is more than just choosing a people out of the millions of prospects that are in this world, He has picked us from before we were born.
Eph 1:4 according as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love,
Now He is carefully preparing those He has chosen, "preparing a place," every day of our lives and you can be assured "that He who began a good work in you will bring it to completion."
John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself, that where I am you may be also.
Php 1:6 And I am sure of this, that He who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.
The Elect are in God and that is a very good safe place to be.
John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.
v. 28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.
v. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.
v. 30 I and the Father are one."
This is why there is no need to worry and fret about anything, just do the best you can and God will "complete" the work He is doing in us.
Mat 6:34 Therefore do not be anxious about tomorrow; for tomorrow shall be anxious for its own things. Sufficient to the day is the evil of it.
Php 4:4 Rejoice in the Lord always. Again I say, Rejoice!
v. 5 Let your moderation be known to all men. The Lord is at hand.
v. 6 Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything by prayer and supplication, with thanksgiving, let your requests be made known to God.
v. 7 And the peace of God which passes all understanding shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
Gina:
You can be assured that "that He who began a good work in you will bring it to completion."
Yes!! Thanks, Kat!
River:
--- Quote from: mharrell08 on December 19, 2011, 07:47:44 AM ---
--- Quote from: River on December 18, 2011, 09:18:30 PM --- How is one to know when it is "no longer" since one can't live eternally? What then of those who don't have a desire so say for 20 years and then one day it changes?
--- End quote ---
As to your first question, when one receives immortality, they will live forever. Death will have no more power over them.
As to your 2nd question, Christ said that he who endures 'to the end' will be saved. The end is when you have been through God's judgments and are made righteous.
--- Quote from: River on December 18, 2011, 09:18:30 PM --- And since we are carnal creatures with a physical organ called the brain and this chemistry can be changed due to life changes, injury etc. how can it be judged on "desire"? Is not desire a carnal attribute?
--- End quote ---
No, desire is not a carnal attribute. It is what you desire that condemns one to sin.
Hope this helps,
Marques
--- End quote ---
Yes, you could assume someone could live forever but since living is not done all at once, this is what I am asking. A person can have a time frame where they live and don't desire something but then it may come back again. And I don't understand how you say desire can't be a carnal thing. All the sins listed we are told to abstain from are either survival, reproductive etc. actions all humans are subjected to. So are you talking about a future event that no one has experinced yet? And again we must be talking only of a faith matter because there is no way to prove someone is going to remain converted since no one has yet lived forever.
Deborah-Leigh:
I LOVE the bathroom diaper analogy Gina!!!! ;D LOL ;D
1Jn 2:16 because all that is in the world, the LUST of the flesh, and the LUST of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
1Jn 2:17 And the world passes away, and the LUST of it, but he who does the will of God abides forever.
Jas 1:14 But each one is tempted by his lusts, being drawn away and seduced by them.
Jas 1:15 Then when lust has conceived, it brings forth sin. And sin, when it is fully formed, brings forth death.....just like a poo in a diaper....~ :D ;D
mharrell08:
--- Quote from: River on December 19, 2011, 11:51:51 PM ---Yes, you could assume someone could live forever but since living is not done all at once, this is what I am asking. A person can have a time frame where they live and don't desire something but then it may come back again. And I don't understand how you say desire can't be a carnal thing. All the sins listed we are told to abstain from are either survival, reproductive etc. actions all humans are subjected to. So are you talking about a future event that no one has experinced yet? And again we must be talking only of a faith matter because there is no way to prove someone is going to remain converted since no one has yet lived forever.
--- End quote ---
So your point is: how can one ever be sure they are converted when they could simply backslide at a later date/time? And you also say this must be a 'faith matter' since it would be impossible to prove, seeing that no one has lived forever.
Your first point: The verse I reference above was Christ saying 'he who endures to the end'. So obviously there is an end. One does not wrestle with the flesh for all eternity. There will come a time when God will be finished judging and correcting you, Jesus says so Himself. That is 'the end' that is spoken of, that is when you will be saved. Whether it happens all in this age or continues into the next, the point is, there is an end.
Your 2nd point: I believe God has already proved Himself in this regard. God has proved Himself in more ways imaginable and I don't think it is a stretch to believe He will convert every human soul and KEEP them converted.
Ray talks about how he knows the scriptures are true. One reason he mentions often is the apostle Paul. He truly believes Paul was not a fraud and was who he said he was. My reason is somewhat different. I know the scriptures are true because they talk about me. Only someone who is God could look into my heart and soul, condemn my sin, and turn me around. I see it all over the scriptures...that's how I know they are true to me.
The reason why I mention this is because if you need things 'proved' to you concerning the things that God says, it will happen. Lots of people need proof. God has only given people 'a measure of faith' [Rom 12:3], only a portion. And not everyone's portion is the same. But the point is, it will happen.
Marques
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