> General Discussions
How do we know if we're converted?
River:
--- Quote from: mharrell08 on December 20, 2011, 07:42:47 AM ---
--- Quote from: River on December 19, 2011, 11:51:51 PM ---Yes, you could assume someone could live forever but since living is not done all at once, this is what I am asking. A person can have a time frame where they live and don't desire something but then it may come back again. And I don't understand how you say desire can't be a carnal thing. All the sins listed we are told to abstain from are either survival, reproductive etc. actions all humans are subjected to. So are you talking about a future event that no one has experinced yet? And again we must be talking only of a faith matter because there is no way to prove someone is going to remain converted since no one has yet lived forever.
--- End quote ---
So your point is: how can one ever be sure they are converted when they could simply backslide at a later date/time? And you also say this must be a 'faith matter' since it would be impossible to prove, seeing that no one has lived forever.
Your first point: The verse I reference above was Christ saying 'he who endures to the end'. So obviously there is an end. One does not wrestle with the flesh for all eternity. There will come a time when God will be finished judging and correcting you, Jesus says so Himself. That is 'the end' that is spoken of, that is when you will be saved. Whether it happens all in this age or continues into the next, the point is, there is an end.
Your 2nd point: I believe God has already proved Himself in this regard. God has proved Himself in more ways imaginable and I don't think it is a stretch to believe He will convert every human soul and KEEP them converted.
Ray talks about how he knows the scriptures are true. One reason he mentions often is the apostle Paul. He truly believes Paul was not a fraud and was who he said he was. My reason is somewhat different. I know the scriptures are true because they talk about me. Only someone who is God could look into my heart and soul, condemn my sin, and turn me around. I see it all over the scriptures...that's how I know they are true to me.
The reason why I mention this is because if you need things 'proved' to you concerning the things that God says, it will happen. Lots of people need proof. God has only given people 'a measure of faith' [Rom 12:3], only a portion. And not everyone's portion is the same. But the point is, it will happen.
Marques
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Marques, I wanted to thank you for taking the time to answer all my questions on this matter.
Gina:
Deb
--- Quote ---I LOVE the bathroom diaper analogy Gina!!!! ;D LOL ;D
--- End quote ---
lol, Deb! Glad you liked. I first heard my sister Cheri use that term (she borrowed it from our brother Scott) like 15 years ago, or something. I've never forgotten that. lol
--- Quote ---Jas 1:15 Then when lust has conceived, it brings forth sin. And sin, when it is fully formed, brings forth death.....just like a poo in a diaper....~ :D ;D
--- End quote ---
Lol! Or, on a more serious note, it could be said that sin, when it is fully-formed, brings forth sleep via Father Time Who comes along and says something like this: "It's time for you to go to bed. Nite-nite" ;D ;D
And with that, I'm going beddy-bye. Later, party people.
Deborah-Leigh:
Ah...That's why the diaper is a classic! It has a lineage! :D
It just gets better...what you said about sleep is Dazzling! 8)
Peace and quiet comes after the party....~ :)
Gina:
Indeed, Deb. Peace and quiet comes after the party. You get it.
I got a bit of a revelation last night when I was turning in for the night. I realized that we know we're converted when we would rather be on the forum reading and learning than doing our will.
Marques said, we know we're converted when we no longer have the desire to do the carnal activities you enjoyed once before.
And that's certainly true, except that we have to go one MAJOR step beyond that, and actually do the activities we desire--the ones that line up with what God desires we do. And the only way that's going to happen is when God works in us to will and to do His good pleasure (Phil 2:13) I realized last night that I get more joy and satisfaction out of this forum than I do other things and my behavior is actually changing. That ol' diaper analogy at work here.
YEAH!
Gina:
Righteous? lol I don't know about that, Mr.
The living know that they shall die, but the dead know not ANYTHING." (Ecc. 9:5)
;D
I might only be dying to self a little bit. :-*
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