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adultery

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Gina:
Dear Dre,

It's so easy for us to sit here and pass judgment, but I'm learning that except for a few minor changes I could be in your situation.  I have not forgotten you Dre.  I remember when you wrote to the forum about a year and a half ago.  I truly will pray that you find the peace you seek.  I'm so sorry that your wife dumped you because of your beliefs.  I'm so sorry that you feel like you can't bring your troubles to the forum (I would be feeling the same way as you right now--what you did took courage) and I'm sorry that you weren't comforted.  I pray the God of comfort comforts you greatly.

Jesus the Great High Priest

Hebrews 4:14-16

Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has gone through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold firmly to the faith we profess.

For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet was without sin.

Let us then approach the throne of grace with confidence, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need.

Listen:  It's not that we might receive mercy and we might find grace to help us in our time of need, but that we will find it. 

Peace-out  :) ;)
Gina

River:

--- Quote from: John from Kentucky on December 30, 2011, 11:48:11 PM ---
--- Quote from: River on December 30, 2011, 08:58:16 PM ---I use to think way back that all this sort of stuff was cut and dry. And of course the churches always make it sound like that. But I have searched this matter out to no end and there is no exact way to do it. This is one of those subjects I don't agree on with most the forum members it seems. First off it always gets turned into a physical act it hangs on and second on the authority of pagan customs and government powers. And since when did co-habitaing become adultery? Later I see the term "sleeping together" comes up. Are we that afraid to talk about the reality of sex? Over 6 billion people alive on the planet, you know what that means don't you? This is one of those issues that the churches use to beat down people with. We have no free will right? But yet we say don't do this and don't do that. I understand why we do that but I really do think we get into a muddled religious mindframe with this subject. And with saying this I don't approve of just having sex for whatever reason, but I also think it is totally silly to think it is somehow legit just because someone is "married." I really hope others are able to see the depth of that statement. For me marriage has nothing to do with sex. Doesn't anyone see the deeper meaning of this parable?  :-\



--- End quote ---

Cohabiting becomes adultery when God says so.

"Marriage is honorable among all, and the bed undefiled; but fornicators and adulterers God will judge."  Hebrews 13:4

Sex outside marriage is sin.  It is one thing to show mercy to sinners.  It is another thing to show disrespect to God's laws.  We think too much of ourselves when we do so.

I am an unmarried man.  I want to have sex with women just watching them walk.  But I don't make the rules.  God's rules are so strict that just looking at women with lustful desires is sin.

Also, God made sex.  He is not shy about speaking about it.  An entire book of scriptures, the Song of Songs is about sexual relations between a man and woman, especially when you check the Hebrew references.  That book also has a higher spiritual theme.  It was one of the Festival scrolls read during the Passover and Days of Unleavened Bread.

Ray has an excellent study on marriage and its scriptural definitions.

--- End quote ---

You want to show me where it says COHABITING (NOT SEX)  is a sin? Not sure why you wrote all that to me, nothing I haven't heard before or read. But of course how are you to know that. So thanks anyway. You must have clearly misunderstood my post. And of course I show disrespect to God's laws. And of course you like everyone else thinks you have the scriptures all figured out so you get to claim what exactly is God's laws. On this site we challenge the deep embedded hell thinking which many others will fight to the death defending as God's laws as well. You proably think you have this "marriage" subject all figured out. Well I have good reason to doubt it and have scriptural proof as well to show it is not as you like to say it is. But of course we can't do that here and I have no desire to debate it. I just shared my thoughts, that is all. And I assume you did the same. Happy New Year to you!

octoberose:
Hi River,
I'd  be interested to hear what you have to say. You can go on the facebook page and write what you believe you have uncovered. Nothing is easy for us. Its all easy in Christ (His yoke is easy,His burden light ). Hope to talk again later...

Duane:
I think this all gets back to "free will" stuff.  God knew that even BEFORE Dre was created that Dre was going to be married and that Dre's wife was going to leave him and that Dre was going to meet another woman and be in the situation that he feels guilty about.  Dre did what human beings do--we sin!  But God knows all about the situation and will make His purpose come out of it.  Like David and Bathsheba--David should have been at war--not home!  Bathsheba could have gotten unexpected company and not bathed at the time David was on his balcony.  David could have got unexpected company and missed the "show".  David could have had sex with "Bathie" and it could have been the wrong "time of the month" to conceive. Any number of things COULD HAVE HAPPENED so the situation COULD HAVE BEEN avoided; but, she did conceive and the baby died.  But, ALL IS OF GOD-and we are responsible for our decisions. HOWEVER,  God's WILL will not be thwarted in Dre's life no matter what Dre does because God all ready knows the "beginning from the end" and we will pay in the Lake of Fire someday.  So Dre, (and WE) will be PURIFIED by FIRE and CLEANSED by BRIMSTONE until his sins "come out in the wash" so to speak--then he (we) will be perfect in God's sight!  (I owe this commentary all to Ray!)   

Samson:

--- Quote from: River on December 30, 2011, 08:58:16 PM ---I use to think way back that all this sort of stuff was cut and dry. And of course the churches always make it sound like that. But I have searched this matter out to no end and there is no exact way to do it. This is one of those subjects I don't agree on with most the forum members it seems. First off it always gets turned into a physical act it hangs on and second on the authority of pagan customs and government powers. And since when did co-habitaing become adultery? Later I see the term "sleeping together" comes up. Are we that afraid to talk about the reality of sex? Over 6 billion people alive on the planet, you know what that means don't you? This is one of those issues that the churches use to beat down people with. We have no free will right? But yet we say don't do this and don't do that. I understand why we do that but I really do think we get into a muddled religious mindframe with this subject. And with saying this I don't approve of just having sex for whatever reason, but I also think it is totally silly to think it is somehow legit just because someone is "married." I really hope others are able to see the depth of that statement. For me marriage has nothing to do with sex. Doesn't anyone see the deeper meaning of this parable?  :-\



--- End quote ---


Hi River,

Just for information, there is an old thread from January 29, 2007 entitled: Living With A Woman started By Bradigans(He's no longer a Member) that Addresses this Type of Scenario, ie- Cohabiting with someone of the opposite sex without the benefit of a Legalized Marriage. Some of the "Players," involved in this Thread are no longer with us. Ray's Transcript on what constitutes a Marriage(Greek-Gamos, literally meaning "Nuptials") is the result of that Thread, because some Forum Members felt that no one needed a physical piece of paper to substantiate being Married in God's Viewpoint. This Article of Ray's was the one that John From Kentucky had alluded to in His first or second Post of this Thread, you might want to examine this Thread, there were 43 replies before it got locked.

On a side note that might be of interest to you, I joined the Forum in late 2007 into early 2008, approximately one year after that Thread, was already Married to Pam in April 2007, but 8-12 Months prior to Marrying Her, I had a similar mindset about whether or not I needed a Marriage Certificate in order to be considered Married in God's View. Pam and I were getting along so well, so I began to reason that this relationship of Ours is much superior to the ones where I was Legally Married, so " If it ain't broke, don't try to fix it." Upon joining the Forum in late December of 2007 I came upon Ray's article and subsequently finding that Thread from January of 2007(Living With A Woman) and I was unable to disprove Ray's proof showing that We needed to be Legally Married in order for Our Marriage to be acceptable in God's View. Read a few quotes found below in blue from Ray.

TERMS OF MATRIMONY

MARRIAGE:  Gk. gamos - NUPTIALS, marriage, wedding.  The CEREMONY and its proceedings including the ‘marriage feast.’

That’s the definition of marriage right out of the Bible.  Now do you see sex, intercourse, or love in there?  No.  Let’s read it again, nuptials, marriage, wedding - the ceremony.  CEREMONY……I want to show this to you over and over and over again, it will blow you away, it’s the ceremony and it’s proceedings, including the marriage feast or the marriage supper or what we call in the western world ‘the reception.’ 

NUPTIALS:  Noun; ‘A wedding CEREMONY’ (Webster’s Dictionary).  Adjective; ‘related to marriage or the wedding ceremony.’

That’s the first definition by Dr. Strong, it is nuptials.  It has nothing to do with having intercourse, loving each other, or producing children, nothing.  It means a wedding ceremony. 
The reason I decided to do this study, is because this person (email) is so hung up on the fact that ceremony has nothing to do with marriage.  The fact of the matter is, what he thinks is marriage has nothing to do with the definition of marriage, 180 degrees opposite direction. 
You can just go through dictionary after dictionary and Strong’s and you can look up all the words; marry, marrying, marriage, matrimony, look them all up, they all cross reference, they all produce the same truth……the wedding ceremony.

But all civilized cultures have that and it is an ordained institution of God supported in both the Old and New Testaments.  And although ordained of God, marriage is more physical than spiritual, from a scriptural point of view.  Boy I can see the stones coming for saying that, but it’s true.  We’re talking about the definition of the word, what the word actually means.  If marriage was a spiritual institution, instead of a carnal institution.  Why do 50% of those getting married divorce?  What is spiritual about that?  If all the people got married into a spiritual relationship, there would hardly ever be a divorce.  But it’s not.  People go into marriage with a carnal mind, with physical expectations. 
Now most couples who get married do love each other, I’m not saying they don’t, I’m just saying it’s not a spiritual union.  They love each other and they have sex together, but the truth of the matter is neither one is required to define what a marriage is, neither one.  Just because you're married to someone doesn’t mean that you love them, right.  Does anybody agree with that?  It doesn’t mean you love them just because you are married and just because you love somebody doesn’t mean your married to them, am I also right.

How did Adam take Eve to become his wife?  Did they just go to bed and say, ‘this feels good, shall we be a couple, shall we get married?  No, we don’t need to get married, I’ll just take you as my wife and you’ll take me as a husband.  We don’t need to get to married, we’re living together having sex together, we’re husband and wife now.’  Is that how Adam and Eve started their marriage?
I mean this person in the email concedes that they were husband and wife.  Is that how they started?  No!  God has joined them together.  When is a man and a woman joined together?  When they have sex on the honeymoon?  No!  It is part of the ceremony of entering in the marriage.  It is not a part of just being together after you are married . 
“What God has joined…”   There is a point where the joining starts……here they are apart, and now we can put together that God brought the woman to the man, that’s like an espousal.  Then he joined them together.  How did he do that?  Did He push their bodies together?  Come on, let’s not get lewd.  He joined them together as husband and wife in the garden, before they ever came together or had sex or had children. 
God joined them together, that’s what nuptials are.  You take a vow and what happens at the end of the ceremony?  What does the minister usually say?  I now pronounce you husband and wife.  Why?  Because they are now joined together. 
Did they have sex?  No.  What did they do?  They took the vows, they formed a covenant in front of witnesses, in a ceremony called a wedding in a public gathering.  That’s what marriage is.  It’s the joining of a unmarried man and a unmarried woman together in a public setting with witnesses, exchanging vows and making a covenant to be husband and wife with one another as long as you both shall live.  That’s what a wedding is.  That’s what nuptials are.  That’s what ‘marry’ means, that’s what a marriage is, that’s what starts the matrimony of two people.

Marriage would probably been better translated matrimony, that is actually the marriage state, when a couple are married and living together as husband and wife.  That institution there, matrimony.  But notice what He contrasts it with…matrimony is honorable, what is matrimony?  It’s somebody who went through a wedding with exchanging of vows and forming a covenant. 
What if you don‘t do that?  What about people who say, ‘well, I just want to live together and have sex and never get married.’  They never commit and they say, ‘I don‘t want a piece of paper, she knows I love her.’  Yea well you just keep telling yourself that and maybe she doesn’t know that, maybe you’ve halfway convinced her. 
Notice what He contrast it with…… matrimony.  The marriage institution is honorable and the bed undefiled - having sex together as a husband and wife.  The word undefiled, that’s kind of a semi-negative to me, the word is pure.  Why put undefiled?  The word is pure.  The marriage bed between a husband and wife is pure in God’s eyes.  It’s pure to have sex with your wife or your mate, that’s pure. 

But notice what the opposite is, if it’s not marriage,  “…but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.”  If you are not in matrimony in your wedding bed, what does God consider you?  A whoremonger and a adulterer.  Now do I need to read Rev. 21:8, “All whoremongers will find their place in the Lake of fire.”  Is that not clear enough there?  People don’t put these things together.  If you are not married, but you live together, you are a whoremonger and adulterer. 

Comment: There is no way around the Greek Word "Porneia," it comes from a root word which means " to sell," and although it has a broad meaning that includes all kinds of Immorality like Spousal Abuse and refusing to provide for ones family constituting " An Immoral Man," it's primary meaning consists of ALL sexual contact outside the Marriage Bond(Matrimony); ie- Beastiality, Premarital Sex,  Adultery(Greek-Moikeia), Homosexuality, etc. Scriptures to review are 1Cor. 6:9-11; Matthew. 19:3-9; Matthew. 5:31,32; 1Cor. 6:13("Body not for fornication"); 1Cor. 3:16("Flee from Fornication"); 1Cor. 10:8("Neither let us practice Fornication"); Ephesians. 5:3; Colossians. 3:5; 1Thessalonians. 4:3. Ray mentioned Hebrews. 13:4 regarding Marriage being honorable without defilement and end the end of this verse, it makes a distinction between "Adultery's & Fornicators," A person doesn't necessarily have to be committing Adultery in order to defile the Marriage bed, He & She could be practicing Pre-Marital Sex (Fornication) and be defiling the Marriage Bed and it's not an act of Adultery, but a type of Porneia.

Remember, none of the above is an attack of DRE91 or anyone else for that matter, the Scriptures are clear on this matter and there's no way around them, whether I'm disobeying this instruction or the Guy down the Street  and all of us know that this hasn't anything to do with Our Eventual Salvation. As Gina mentioned, DRE91 brought this situation up in the Past, DRE91 and I discussed His situation privately through phone conversations & Personal Messaging. Futhermore, I don't or wouldn't want the responsiblity or being accountable for telling DRE91 what choice He should make about Marrying whoever, I don't want the results of My suggestion coming back to haunt Me,  ;).

John From Kentucky's point about a Man living with a Woman without leading to Sex is realistic. I can't see how any full functional Heterosexual Male could possibly live with a Heterosexual Woman without resulting in some type of sexual activity. Quote from John from Kentucky below in Red, He gets the color Red,  ;D.

Man to man, do you truly believe a man can live with a woman and not have sex?  Really?   Roll Eyes


I fully agree with John's statement, Also living with a Woman without Marriage might constitute "An Appearance of Evil," towards those Neighbors & the Community. In other words, even if the Male & Female are living together and not having Sex, the feelings & consciences of others would be affected, at least those that know about it.

                     My contribution to this thread, That's all folks, Samson.

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